--- Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On Jun 18, 2005, at 10:03 AM, jyouells2000 wrote:
> 
> > Agreed 'sign's of awakening' can only be self
> reported. The difference
> > between nearly infinite and infinite is infinite.
> It's a catagory
> > difference. Once it is clearly known that
> unbounded is not a 'really
> > big space', and that eternal is not a 'really long
> time' the whole
> > idea of relative signs falls apart...
> 
> In many traditions one checks ones View, their inner
> experience and POV 
> with a teacher who's 'been there, done that'. I
> can't tell you how many 
> people I've met who thought they were enlightened
> after a certain 
> experience or shift in awareness. In every case the
> experience was a 
> symptom of some part of awakening or some aspect of
> the Path. In the 
> first part of my training a portion was on people
> who will report 
> instances of enlightenment after practicing certain
> practices, so there 
> is a practical literature out there on this very
> topic, it's just not 
> generally discussed outside the tradition (let alone
> on email lists).
> 
> -V.

Yes, what is usually discussed on an e-mail list are
peoples' mental models of enlightenment and how wrong
you are if you don't express your experience of
enlightenment within the confines of my mental model.



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