--- In [email protected], Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- TurquoiseB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've just stated that I don't assume that Maharishi > > is Self-realized/enlightened, and you want me to > > care about *his* definition of enlightenment? :-) > > I assume MMY is enlightened in the same way I assume I > exist. It is not a conceptual proposition for me > because of the incredible experiences I've had that > MMY has been the catalyst for. Haven't any of you guys > experienced that infinite vastness of consciousness in > MMY's presence?
I'm not saying that considering him any way you want to is incorrect. I was merely stating how I see him. I do not assume that he is fully enlightened. I do not assume that Rama was fully enlightened or that Gangaji (the only one of the commonly-discussed teachers here I have personally met) is. I also do not assume that they are not fully enlightened. This is partly because in general I am trying to rid myself of assumptions about the universe, not preserve them. :-) It is also partly because I've come to realize that it really doesn't *matter* to me whether a teacher is fully enlightened or not. Whether it's good or bad or neither or both, I've realized that I wouldn't value the advice and point of view of a person whom I knew without a doubt to be enlightened any more than I would value the advice and point of view of another seeker such as myself. The "Hey, he's enlight- ened, so..." thing just doesn't work for me any more. For me it's more like, "Hey, he's enlight- ened." There is no "so." > It's the same thing I experience with > SSRS. The first time I saw MMY in 1972 and we made eye > contact, I progressively "exploded" into infinity. I respect that experience. I must admit I never had a similar one with Maharishi, although I have with other individuals. I don't know why some people get a "hit" from some teachers and why others have no such experience with those teachers Maybe the subjective exper- iences of the individual seeker say more about the potential resonance with that teacher and what he or she has to offer that seeker than it does about the absolute state of consciousness of the teacher. > Perhaps MMY's behavior challanges our conceptual > definitions of enlightenment, but the direct > experience of that darshan is mind-boggling, > literally. We jaw on and on in our posts, but one > moment of that darshan just flattens you! It takes more than giving good darshan to flatten me these days. Actually, it takes less. I've had it up to here with flashy experiences, miracles, siddhis, and the like. I'm content with teachers who, when you sit to meditate with them, just "go away," leaving nothing behind to admire or boggle one's mind because your mind has gone away to the same non-place the teacher did, and there's no one left "at home" to be boggled. :-) I guess what I'm trying to say is that these days, when it comes to teachers, I'm most interested in improving my own meditation. And I've found that the most useful "advice" in that study isn't taught in words. It's taught by simply sitting with the teachers as they meditate. If they can meditate better than I can -- enlightened, shmightened -- I can learn from them. End of story. Unc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
