--- In [email protected], "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Gee, we just had a discussion about Guru Dev's views > on who could and could not be a guru, and most here > seemed to agree Guru Dev wasn't unimpeachable on that > point at all.
Out of all posters, and certainly readers, AFAIR few, if any, expressed a view that SBS was clearly wrong. Did anyone come to this conclusion? I may have missed some posts. "Clearly wrong" is my phrase, not yours. If you are making a wide distinction between "wasn't unimpeachable" and "clearly wrong", ok then. However, then the argument would be that SBS is not seen as clearly wrong, but .... Or, if some conclude that he is clearly wrong on this point, does it follow that he may have been werong on other points? If no, why not? If so, how many and which other points? Which are valid points, which are not? As I recall, the main discussion was around what does he mean by "guru". Some perhaps made themselves comfortable defining guru in a very rarified form -- and thus many "mere teachers" could be non-brahmans and women. That is a POV, not a definitive argument - withour much more digging into contemporary contextual material by fluent Hindi speakers. My sense of it, my POV, which is not a definitive argument, is that many common folk flocked to SBS for darshan, satsang, and instruction in techniques -- that he was "Guru Dev" to many thousands, not just the boys at the ashram. (Paul are you fluent in Hindi? Or are your translations dictionary look-ups, and then piecing together possible meanings?) In the same fashion, there were many teachers in India that were "gurus" to their "flock". And SBS was commenting that some of such gurus did not meet the criteria of shastra. And there are lots of stuff in Shastra. Paul/others, are Laws of Manu considered Shastra? If so, and if it is being, or can be established that SBS was absolute about following Shastra, in public, and to less public audiences (at ashram), then it appears that some/many of us are in quite a quandry. ... Of course, he rarely posts anything > from either Guru Dev or MMY that is not designed to > make MMY look bad by comparison. I have not come to such a conclusion -- of such a pattern -- from Paul's posts. I think he explained one of his motivations for posting several months ago -- that he saw a gap between what SBS wrote and TMO doctrine. And was perplexed about it. Wanted to get other's views. I find the posts useful. All other quotes are available on the web site. Paul is hardly withholding anything (which ofcourse you did not say, but, IMO, implied.) > As Alex pointed out, though, the quote doesn't appear > to be relevant to this group, since MMY is not the kind > of personal guru that Guru Dev was referring to. I'm > sure Paul knows this, Do you mean Paul knows that Alex, a non-Hindi speaker, has an opinion about the meaning of words Alex read (outside of full context, probably)? Hardly a compelling critique of Paul. Or do you mean Paul should know that "MMY is not the kind of personal guru that Guru Dev was referring to." If the latter, I am not sure why Paul have drawn the same conclusion as Alex (and you). I certainly didn't. The translation (always open to more scrutiny and analysis) says "The guru is gone to" That sounds much more like the local everyday person (like us), who flocked to SBS for advice, particualrly as he traveled around the country, than a full time inner circle staff serving him 24/7 (like a Bevin), who was always around him. And the translation refers to the one who was going to the guru as a "guru-bhakt". A guru follower. To me, that sounds like your typical meditator or at least TM teacher / gov. We do, or have, followed a teacher/guru. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
