On Sat, 2003-10-04 at 11:05, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> As far as I know "kaaf-e tahghir" does not mean something poor,
> but something small, like your "chizak".  The other kind of
> "kaaf" I know is "kaaf-e ezzat", as your examples "azizak",
> "kanizak", and sometimes both of them are meant, like in
> "morghak".

What about the others senses?

> > > Do so please then.
> >
> > I guess they're using the "-ak" postfix in the tool sense (like
> > "ghaltak"). So it comes to mean "abzaar-e neshaane-gozaari". Still not
> > convinced?
> So you mean "ghaltak" means "abzaar-e ghalt-zadan"??

I'm sorry, but language is not that exact, neither I am an expert in
these. "ghaltak" means "abzaar-e ghalt-zan". "neshaanak" may mean
"abzaar-e neshaan-zan" (not exactly, yes).

Also, these suffixes do not exactly bring a meaning with themselves,
contrary to what we've been learning in high school. The "-ak" in
"sorkhak" and "zardak" is just a suffix that creates a noun out of an
adjective. In "ghaltak" and probably "kaardak", it just makes a tool out
of something else. Just don't try to be productive in the old sense,
trying to assign exact meanings to each postfix and prefix.

> You didn't
> got my argument about assigning a wider phrase to the narrow
> "computer-related" word.  The physical bookmark, and virtual
> browser-related bookmark are both "abzaar-e neshaane-gozaari",
> and as for "abzaar", the physical one is much more a tool.  Got
> it?

I got that the first time, and I simply accepted it. But I guess we
can't change that. Creating new words to make them more *generative* is
a well-known general policy of the Academy. I guess "choob-alef" has a
tendency not to be able to create new parts of speech, while "neshaanak"

> Unfortunately I'm loosing my last hopes on them.  I can't fight
> for all these silly funny words (just a few of them are quoted):
>   * database -> "daadegaan"

The relationship of "base" and "-gaan" is existing, I guess "-gaan"
should have been a widely used postfix in Pahlavi. "paadegaan"?

>   * ftp -> "ghaap"

That's an abbreviation: FTP = "gharaardaad-e enteghaal-e parvande":
"gheyn", "alef", "pe". If you have problems with abbreviations, don't
use them.

>   * redo -> "az no"

This is the translation of the "Redo" menu, not the action of
"redo"-ing. I agree that it's not that good, but I've not seen many good
ones. Your suggestion?

>   * scroll -> "navardidan"!

The problem? Your suggestion?

> And their inconsistencies:
>   * interface -> "vaaset, miaanaa"
>   * Graphical User Interface -> "miaanaa-ye ..."
>     (miana is the second choice for interface)

There is still a debate going on over that. "vaaset" was already
approved for a term in the Electricity Word-Choosing Group, but the
Computer group wanted "miaanaa". That is not finalized, so they are
listing both candidates for feedback.

>   * output (device) -> "khorooji"
>     (Isn't "khorooji" also a noun in Persian?)

It's *only* a noun in Persian, as far as I can tell. I'm not getting
what you mean. Would you explain? From what I get, is that they are
translating the "output" of a program as "boroon-daad", but an "output"
device as "dastgaah-e khorooji".

> They never bothered themselves to identify nouns and verbs in
> their list.

They do, in the final published list. They are assuming it's evident
from the translation. But in this certain case, I agree that they have
not translated "output" in the verb sense.


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