The thing is Java wasn't developed to do 'Presentation Logic', and thus
provides only 'Functional Logic'. On the other hand CF was developed
primarily to do 'Presentation Logic', and has problems, (i.e.. speed), when
complicated 'backend' processing is required.
The key to a successful implementation is to use both technologies together.
When NEO finally gets out of the door, the hardcore Java developers will not
be able to easily dismiss CF, as by doing so they will be dismissing Java.
The trick is to use the right tool for the job. CF is the ONLY language
that attacks the presentation layer successfully, i.e. being a tag based
language, whilst all the others are adaptations from functional languages,
that can write HTML to the output.
I too spent a lot of time learning JSP, (I love Java), but just found it a
whole lot faster and easier to do presentation work in CF, and use Java for
the tasks it excels at.
-David Maddison
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> Sent: 29 May 2001 03:59
>> To: Fusebox
>> Subject: Re: JSP vs CF
>>
>>
>> > Java custom tags and more info:
>> >
>> http://forums.allaire.com/coldfusion/messageview.cfm?catid=7
>> &threadid=200014
>> >
>> That's a great thread, thanks. When you combine CF, Java,
>> and XML, the sky's
>> the limit.
>>
>> Kory
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Fusebox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 1:18 AM
>> Subject: RE: JSP vs CF
>>
>>
>> > That would be great! :)
>> >
>> > Java custom tags and more info:
>> >
>> http://forums.allaire.com/coldfusion/messageview.cfm?catid=7
>> &threadid=200014
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: LOUIS JOSEPH ZEZERAN
>> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 12:17 AM
>> > To: Fusebox
>> > Subject: Re: JSP vs CF
>> >
>> >
>> > I've just finished making an extension to fusebox which deals with
>> > XSLT. We have choosen PHP with Sablotron to do the
>> project with, but I
>> > believe the ideas I've come up with are easily portable
>> to CF, it's
>> > more coding and naming conventions to keep everything tidy than
>> > anything else. If people would like I can make it
>> available to people
>> > on the list for viewing. After finishing the design stage of the
>> > project the design has come through pretty much unchanged
>> and because
>> > of it I belive our efforts on the coding stage will be greatly
>> > minimised, even though we are using XSL to produce
>> versions of the site
>> > for 3 different content types.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Louis
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Kory Basaraba)
>> > Date: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 10:59 am
>> > Subject: Re: JSP vs CF
>> >
>> > > Could you point me in the direction of some of those XSL custom
>> > > tags? The
>> > > only ones I've found use MSXML, and I'd sure like to
>> get my hands
>> > > on one for
>> > > Java. If that's too OT, you can reply to me off list.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks!
>> > >
>> > > Kory
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Stacy Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > To: "Fusebox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 10:51 PM
>> > > Subject: RE: JSP vs CF
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > That's EXACTLY how I see it !! Separate the business logic to
>> > > the back
>> > > > end...Leave for Java. Meanwhile kick-ass in the front end with
>> > > CF and
>> > > FB+XFB
>> > > > !! (Hardly the correct way to phrase it when
>> presenting the idea
>> > > but I'm
>> > > > working on it)
>> > > >
>> > > > I've also been looking at incorporating XSL
>> stylesheets into my FB
>> > > > designs...There's some great custom tags for the Java XSL
>> > > transformers out
>> > > > there. :)
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: Ross Keatinge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> > > > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 10:45 PM
>> > > > To: Fusebox
>> > > > Subject: Re: JSP vs CF
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > I can understand your feelings about JSP and CF Stacy. Here is
>> > > my story
>> > > for
>> > > > what its worth. I am a programmer with quite a bit of
>> CF experience
>> > > although
>> > > > much of my other work has been in 'real' languages like C, VB
>> > > (some would
>> > > > argue the definition of 'real' but ...) and others. I
>> work with
>> > > a page
>> > > > designer and last year we developed an ecommerce /
>> storefront /
>> > > catalogsite
>> > > > in non-FB CF. I've always felt somewhat frustrated with CF
>> > > because its not
>> > > a
>> > > > strongly typed 'real' language.
>> > > >
>> > > > Our application needs lots of new features and is ready for a
>> > > version 2
>> > > > rewrite. This time I really want to get business
>> logic and content
>> > > separated
>> > > > as much as possible. In the last few months I've made a big
>> > > effort to
>> > > learn
>> > > > Java because I somehow convinced myself that JSP / Servlets /
>> > > JavaBeanswere
>> > > > the way to go. I spent a lot of time playing with Struts
>> > > > (http://jakarta.apache.org/struts)and then Webwork
>> > > > (http://sourceforge.net/projects/webwork). Both of these are
>> > > good Model
>> > > View
>> > > > Controller frameworks for JSP being developed by some
>> very smart
>> > > people. I
>> > > > suggest that your Java people should be at least be looking at
>> > > these if
>> > > you
>> > > > can't convince them to go to CF. I found both had
>> quite a steep
>> > > learning> curve and neither is quite released to
>> version 1 yet. I
>> > > too got excited
>> > > when
>> > > > I found CachedRowSet and wrote a bean to use it but
>> gave up over
>> > > issues of
>> > > > jdbc drivers of varying quality and features.
>> > > >
>> > > > I then discovered Fusebox. With CF 5 ready to go it
>> was just too
>> > > good to
>> > > > move past. I couldn't see any compelling reason to
>> switch to JSP
>> > > and we
>> > > are
>> > > > about to start redeveloping our app using XFB.
>> > > >
>> > > > I still like Java but I am not convinced about the
>> JSP idea. My
>> > > frustration
>> > > > with CF being 'just' a scripting language is still
>> there to some
>> > > extent so
>> > > I
>> > > > am looking at doing some of my back end stuff in Java using
>> > > either Java
>> > > CFX
>> > > > tags or CFOBJECT when I want the features of a 'real'
>> language.
>> > > I really
>> > > > feel like I have the best of both worlds now.
>> > > >
>> > > > Cheers all
>> > > > Ross
>> > > >
>> > > > (A New Zealander in the USA. Been lurking here for a while.)
>> > > >
>> > > > --- Stacy Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > > > *sigh*
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Some peeps just don't get it. I'm 110% confident anything
>> > > developed in
>> > > > > JSP can be replicated in CF and vice-versa (given
>> the correct
>> > > skillset> > on the
>> > > > > developer). but MY GOD our place is OBSESSED with
>> everything going
>> > > > > Java on the front end...Projects are taking 10
>> times as long !!!
>> > > > [snip]
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
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