hi Charles.

The suggestion isn't really about complexity or challenge, it's more a question of basic layout and allowing for exploration. I'd be happy for Tom to leave level 1 as is, because it's a fun level, ---- but this sort of business with highlighting ledges above and below you would be good for any audio side scroller, and make it closer to the 2D graffical varients.


beware the Grue!

Dark.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Rivard" <woofer...@sbcglobal.net>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games


As MOTA might get more difficult and complex as we progress through it, maybe this idea could be incorporated somewhere near the end of the game, unless other challenges are in the evil mind of Thomas Ward that would be harder.
---
In God we trust.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Hayden Presley" <hdpres...@hotmail.com>
To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games


Hi Thomas,
Personally, I think you should leave it to Level 3. Leave Level 1 as it is,
is my advice, though this sounds quite intreeging.
Best Regards,
hayden

-----Original Message-----
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Thomas Ward
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 8:16 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] question about games

Hi Dark,
Yes, good point. I know exactly what you mean. About the best example
I can think of to relate to what you are talking about is Tomb Raider
Prophecy.
As you may or may not know Tomb Raider Prophecy was a side-scroller
released in the late 1990's for the Nintendo Gameboy. While there were
plenty of staircases to climb it also featured a series of ledges you
need to jump over or jump up and grab.
For instance, in level 2 when you enter the ancient mountain temple
there are a number of ledges you need to get to. You need to run and
jump onto ledges high above you, walk a ways, run and jump onto a
higher ledge, and so on. There are also cases where you are standing
on a high ledge and need to jump across a chasm to a ledge far below
you. This is imho something I've strongly considered for MOTA.
Although, I have elected to leave it out of the early levels as I'm
not sure how easy or difficult it may be fore a blind gamer to play.
It is certainly something I'm willing to try though. In fact, now the
the updated Genesis Engine written in C++ is just about ready to use I
could redraw level one with more ledges and things of that nature if
you would like.

Cheers!

On 3/17/10, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
Hi Tom.

To be honest, while Tmnt (like turrican or metroid), was very advanced for alternate routes, ---- it even featured different perspectives in levels,
I
was thinking on a much smaller and less profound scale with my example.

To put it another way, in all the audio side scrollers thus far, ----
including Monti (and possibly mota), your character only can interact with what is to their left and right. You cannot jump up to a ledge above you,
or
fall down to one below, much less jump up a series of ledges to go through
a
complex route.

I know that both of your games employed stairs and ladders for vertical
movement which was certainly a step in the right direction, ---- but is
stil
imho far less than what might be achieved in a side scroller in audio.

In a game like Mario, you can jump to ledges above you or to one side,
fall
down onto ledges below (often avoiding enemies on the way).

Games like Mega man took this to an extreme, ---- for instance the dreaded moving ledge section in guts man's stage where you had to time your drops from one moving mine cart to the other, or elec man's stage where you had
to
alternate betwene standard left to right movement, or jumping on
progressively higher ledges to scroll upwards.

Metroid and turrican really took vertical movement to it's ultimate
progression, where making your way through the game required moving left
to
right, or up or down, in any number of combinations. I remember for
instance
one section in Turrican 1 which was shaped like a square. you walked
across
the bottom, then jumped up some ledges at the side, then had to make your
way across some ledges at the top to the top left hand corner exactly
above
where you entered, ---- however if you fell, you'd be on the bottom again.

This was why Turrican was probably the game that really made me fall in
love
with gaming (and weerd miner music chords), at the age of nine, the
feeling
of totally unrestricted movement and exploration, even though the game
featured comparatively symple arcade style gameplay, with only a choice of
two or three basic shooting weapons (a third was added in Turrican 2), a
close range but multi directional surround shot weapon, and three special limited use weapons. Actually, I think Mota already has more weapon choice
than Turrican did, however it was the huge explorable levels (and the
award
winning music), that means there are stil a bunch of developers who use
their free time to produce turrican remakes and extra levels today, 20
years
after the game was first released.

Beware the grue!

Dark.

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