Hi,
I seem to get snapped at all the time when I tell people to do that. There
was some kind of TDV or MOTA related topic earlier this year tht Regards,
Hayden

-----Original Message-----
From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On
Behalf Of Charles Rivard
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 9:15 PM
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support

Although I have been gotten after for telling people to read the 
documentation because the answer is in there, I haven't been thrown off any 
lists for doing so, and I'll stand by what I say about the user's manuals. 
They're there for a purpose, and we should be using them.

---
Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to 
heart.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Trouble" <troub...@columbus.rr.com>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 8:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support


> Got a question for you. With all the lists your on and all the questions 
> you see, and know the answers are in the help or doc's for the program.
> How many do you actually know that read them?
> I get throne off lists just for telling them to read help files and docs.
> Ignorance is bless and abundant in the blind community.
>
> At 08:51 PM 6/14/2011, you wrote:
>>I still contend that a beta is just that.  A trial version that is still 
>>under development.  Anyone who doesn't know that will find out by, maybe, 
>>reading the documentation that comes with the game.  If you state in the 
>>documentation, maybe on the download page and in the license?, that this 
>>is a beta, it still under development and is, therefore, not a final 
>>release, and that gamers are working with it at their own risk, and the 
>>gamer doesn't read it but does agree to it by using the software, it's 
>>their problem.
>>
>>---
>>Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to 
>>heart.
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Ward" 
>><thomasward1...@gmail.com>
>>To: "Philip Bennefall" <phi...@blastbay.com>; "Gamers Discussion list" 
>><gamers@audyssey.org>
>>Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 3:55 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Audio Support
>>
>>
>>>Hi Philip,
>>>
>>>Well, I think you are right. The primary mistake I made with beta 19
>>>was simply that I didn't explain to the end users that this was to be
>>>considered an experimental release only and not in anyway a full
>>>production release. Beta 18 was an official production release were
>>>beta 19 wasn't. Beta 19 was an experiment to see how well the
>>>cross-platform engine run on Windows XP, Vista, and Windows 7  which I
>>>should have been up front about from the beginning. Plus I didn't say
>>>why I had removed joystick and mouse support, and people assumed the
>>>worst and   thought that I was  intending on taking it out of the
>>>final release when it was only intended for that specific release or
>>>build only.
>>>
>>>The thing is, and I wish I had made this clearer from the beginning,
>>>what we have is two different engines more or less in production at
>>>the same time. I've got the Windows specific version of the engine
>>>which is definitely production quality, has been in development for a
>>>couple of years, and is  fairly stable. Then, we've got the
>>>cross-platform or Linux version of the engine that isn't yet
>>>production quality mainly because I haven't found something comparable
>>>to DirectX I can replace those components with. I've not actually
>>>converted the full Windows engine over to Linux yet so there are a lot
>>>of things that need doing like adding joystick support, for example,
>>>before it is 100% up to par for writing production quality games as is
>>>in evidence with beta 19.
>>>
>>>Plus I confess when it comes to writing applications for Linux I'm
>>>still largely in the dark about many of the libraries and APIs it
>>>uses. I've been writing both private and professional software for
>>>Windows for probably 10 years so when it comes to Windows core APIs
>>>and components I pretty much know what I'm doing so I can put together
>>>something pretty quickly and it will be pretty stable because of my
>>>past experience. With Linux if you tell me to write an application
>>>using one of the graphics toolkits like GTK+, QT, WX, etc I'm going to
>>>have to study up on it, write some experimental code, etc because I
>>>have no background experience working with those APIs. The only times
>>>I've been called upon to write a professional application for Linux
>>>such as a graphical front end for a MySQL database I wrote it in Java
>>>using the cross-platform Swing toolkit, and since Java is all pretty
>>>self-contained that doesn't count as practical experience for what i'm
>>>doing now with this cross-platform engine. So its all pretty much
>>>experimental  code at this point as far as the cross-platform engine
>>>is concerned.
>>>
>>>I think the best thing to do right now is to finish MOTA using the
>>>Windows specific engine since it is production quality, get the game
>>>sold using that technology,  and put off finishing the cross-platform
>>>engine until that is out of the way. That way when I say I've got an
>>>experimental release that might be cross-platform people aren't going
>>>to be as upset with me because if they don't like the experimental
>>>cross-platform version they can fallback on 1.0 which is stable and up
>>>to their personal standards.
>>>
>>>The lesson I've learned is this. First, be up front about my
>>>intentions, long term goals or plans, and people will understand what
>>>I'm after. Second, attach, if possible, a buglog.txt file to the
>>>release so people will be informed what problems are in the release
>>>and what is on the todo list for the next upgrade. Third, don't try
>>>and remove a bunch of features after you just released them in a prior
>>>release as some people aren't going to respond well to bleeding edge
>>>code regardless of how temporary the removal might or might not be.
>>>
>>>Cheers!
>>>
>>>---
>>>Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
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>>
>>
>>---
>>Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
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>
>
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