On this level I can confirm that the two games are indeed similar. I clearly cannot give you opinions because they would be biased.
Good play! 2011/12/22 Charles Rivard <wee1s...@fidnet.com> > What I was getting at in my original post are the similarities between the > two games. You have radar to find the enemy. You have weapons to destroy > the enemy. You must complete given missions. You are navigating left and > right, up and down, forward and back. One game is in water while the other > is in the air, but it's the same idea. Of course, the sounds are > different. The idea of both games are similar. > > I wasn't thinking of the mechanics or logistics of navigating your vehicle > through the games.targets > > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Bartlett" < > themusicalbre...@gmail.com> > > To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" <gamers@audyssey.org> > Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:21 AM > > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a thought on the Shard Workshop project > > > OK, small dissertation to follow. >> >> Flying an aircraft is not at all like driving a car or a boat. The >> biggest >> difference is that many of your controls do not directly affect your >> position and orientation in three-space, but instead affect the rate of >> change of that orientation. >> >> As a somewhat simplified example: moving the stick to the left initiates a >> bank to the left, that is, the aircraft rolls along its long axis. The >> excursion from the zero-point of the stick controls how rapidly your roll >> angle changes, rather than setting your absolute roll. Move the stick >> only >> a little, and your roll rate is slow, but you do continue rolling. The >> same >> sort of rate control works for the elevator (stick forward and back), with >> the addition that gravity is still in effect, so that if you "unload" that >> is remove all lift from the aircraft, you will eventually describe a >> parabolic arc downwards (friction effects ignored.) >> >> These two effects are combined in actual flying, especially >> high-performance >> flying, so that turning is usually accomplished by rolling the aircraft, >> then pulling back on the stick for a turn that occupies less horizontal >> space. Much dogfighting was done in the vertical, where rolling equates >> to >> turning. Typically you had more control authority for pitch then roll and >> finally yaw, so you would use your pitch controls to aid in turning. >> >> Now add engine power into the mix. Goosing the throttle has more effects >> than just increasing your speed. Zero Sight has it right that you >> accelerate or decelerate when you change throttle settings, but given that >> lift is, among other things, a function of speed, if you are in level >> flight >> and goose the throttle without making any other control changes, you will >> climb. Chop the power and you descend. >> >> Now finally add in that when you bank, you tend to turn, and when you >> apply >> rudder, it has an effect on bank angle, and both affect your pitch angle, >> and you begin to see how complex flying even a WWII aircraft was. Dark is >> right that it was possible to turn someone who had never flown into a >> combat >> pilot in relatively short order, though in the U.S. the training time was >> more like six months and was every day, hours a day. >> >> Now, we look at modern combat flying. In addition to performing all the >> above tasks, you have a complex cockpit layout that requires memorization. >> You have radar to monitor in any of several possible modes. You have >> weapons packages, both air-to-air and air-to-ground that each have their >> separate control characteristics. It isn't like in the movies, just point >> and shoot, you have to select targets, select weapon system for each >> target, >> know your weapon's envelope of effectiveness and deploy it correctly. >> >> Now to Dark's point, Lone Wolf does not cover every complexity of conning >> a >> submarine in the WWII era, but it gives you enough to do that in the midst >> of a furious combat sequence, firing on one target say, while evading >> three >> incoming destroyers, you have plenty to do. Also, it enforces the sorts >> of >> snap decision-making that a sub commander would have to do. Ok, my >> targeting solution is coming into effect, but I have two destroyers >> bearing >> down on me. Do I wait and take the shot? If so, do I then turn and snap >> off a shot at a destroyer, or do I crash dive and hope to live through the >> bombardment? >> >> From what I've seen, Zero sight gets some of the feel of the "switchology" >> right for modern aircraft, but the flight model is simplified to the point >> where it doesn't impose a burden at all on the pilot. The amazing thing >> about modern fighter or attack pilots is that if need be, they can do all >> this switching while yanking and banking at several gees. >> >> Now, it's probably unrealistic of me to expect anyone to create a detailed >> flight model, though I have some excel models that do a pretty good job, >> at >> least for WWII era aircraft. There are a vanishingly small number of >> blind >> people who've actually flown an aircraft, I am one, so the experience >> isn't >> missed by most gamers. I'm unable to comment on other flight sims, as I >> haven't tried one since the DOS days, but it's my impression that there >> are >> simulators out there, available to the commercial gamer, that do model >> flight more realistically. >> >> So in conclusion, I recognize that my requirements are unreasonable for >> most >> people. Do not take my negative view as representative, and I do >> recommend >> anyone try it. But do not believe that you are doing anything like >> flying. >> And that's ok, I'm the radical simulationist on this forum and I recognize >> that. >> >> Chris Bartlett >> >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> Gamers-unsubscribe@audyssey.**org <gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org>. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://mail.audyssey.org/**mailman/listinfo/gamers_**audyssey.org<http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org> >> . >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/**gamers@audyssey.org<http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org> >> . >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to Gamers-unsubscribe@audyssey. > **org <gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org>. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/**mailman/listinfo/gamers_**audyssey.org<http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org> > . > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/**gamers@audyssey.org<http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org> > . > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
