A simple question for you all. If the current amount of podlings (38):
[terra:~/tmp/podlings-content] mattmann% cat podlings.xml | grep current | wc -l 38 [terra:~/tmp/podlings-content] mattmann% Graduated over the next 3 months (~13 a month), or even the next 6 months (which is ~6 near the current rate +/- a few), would the Board members suddenly cease to function? And then in that time, if we gain 1-2 new projects a month (probably greater than the average the past few years), would the Board again cease to function? My proposal is to dissolve the self questioning, TL;DR, binding VOTEs and wild west that is the Incubator PMC. The rest of the situation stays the same. Keep the stinkin' documentation at http://incubation.apache.org, and folks can continue to work/crank on it there if they desire. Why is a (meta)/umbrella committee needed for this? And stop identifying the Board as the folks who shoulder the load. The committees (incoming and graduated) shoulder the load -- the Board only acts rarely, and when provoked. We also have committees for Legal and otherwise that can be leveraged here as I have stated. BTW, note the first step you all seem to agree on is also the first step in my proposal, that Greg and I proposed over a year ago. Cheers, Chris ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: Benson Margulies <bimargul...@gmail.com> Reply-To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org> Date: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 2:18 PM To: "general@incubator.apache.org" <general@incubator.apache.org> Subject: Re: Incubator structure (was Re: Vote on personal matters: majority vote vs consensus) >Ant is reflecting a real dilemma here. At Apache, we try to be >egalitarian, and we try to work by consensus. The natural conclusion >is that the many people needed to vote on releases are also part of >the decision-making body for policy that controls those releases. The >dilemma is that consensus doesn't always scale so well. Neither does >supervision: when everyone is responsible, no one is responsible. > >There are several directions to go to on this. Chris M's proposal >dissolves the IPMC into many, small, egalitarian communities, and >leaves overarching policy for the board and comdev, where it lives for >all the other projects. Ross' proposal sacrifices some egalitarianism >to achieve better scaling of both decision-making and supervision. > >Ross' other proposal :-), to move documentation (and thus some/much of >the locus of policy decision) making to comdev, reduces the load of >decision-making that the IPMC has to find consensus on, and thus >proposes to reduce the stress. > >I sense that Chris M finds my writing on his proposal frustrating. To >try to do a better job of explaining myself: Chris proposes that this >committee recommend its own demise to the board, to be replaced, in >large part, by the board itself. Every board member who has been heard >from so far has been less than enthusiastic. It's one thing for this >community to self-govern, but self-destruction strikes me as outside >of the mandate. It just strikes me as sideways to seek consensus >inside a community that the community is incapable of reliable >reaching consensus, amongst other things. If I believed that the IPMC >was unfixably nonfunctional in supervision or decision-making, I >wouldn't be seeking a consensus. I'd be reporting my view to the >board, making a recommendation, and asking for direction. That's how I >see my duty as an officer. In other words, if there's something >functional to be the chair of, my job is to be the chair of it. If >there's nothing functional to be the chair of, it's my job to say so, >recognizing that the board might just disagree. > >Now that we've cleared up some other matters, I'll try to help us all >discover if we have a consensus on one of these proposals. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org