Yes, please read that thread, and my response. Yes, DataStax’ current response would make this a hostile fork, but I think they should be given a chance to reconsider their stance.
The ASF doesn’t want to accept hostile forks. I understand and agree with that. They can block a move to the ASF, but they can’t block a fork of the project moving elsewhere. Strong communities will regroup and live on. DataStax' reluctance to allow it could very easily be interpreted as a rejection of the ASF governance model or the Foundation itself. DataStax has every right to block this. I also think it would behoove them not to for many reasons. Can we wait and see if DataStax is willing to do the right thing before shooting down the proposal as a hostile fork? -Taylor > On Sep 29, 2016, at 9:48 PM, John D. Ament <johndam...@apache.org> wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 9:40 PM Henry Saputra <henry.sapu...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Which other thread are you referring to? >> >> > A response was received from DataStax legal. > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/e4f2c1403bfb4fe75fce9bd6f3182b9a95b9830ad9893944bac01ed9@%3Cgeneral.incubator.apache.org%3E > > >> On Thursday, September 29, 2016, Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> -1 (binding) >>> >>> See other-thread from Jason at DataStax. This would be considered a >> hostile >>> fork, and as Bertrand noted, the ASF does not want to accept such. >>> >>> On Sep 28, 2016 21:02, "Henry Saputra" <henry.sapu...@gmail.com >>> <javascript:;>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi All, >>>> >>>> Please find below a proposal for a new incubator podling, Apache >>> Olympian, >>>> formerly Titan. >>>> Apache Olympian is software designed to support the processing of >> graphs >>> so >>>> large that they require storage and computational capacities beyond >> what >>> a >>>> single machine can provide. >>>> >>>> This project will be a fork of Titan graph database project ( >>>> https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan/) that already come with Apache >>>> License v2.0. >>>> The project was created by company called Aurelius and was acquired by >>>> Datstax. >>>> Coming to 2016 there has been less activity in the project as the >>> original >>>> authors are busy with other software development, but there is >>> significant >>>> interest from the community (see >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/ >>>> aureliusgraphs/jEN_7QwVXZ4/mz3gik-FAgAJ) >>>> >>>> The community have tried to reaching out to Datastax to donate the >>>> copyright and trademark of project to ASF but it was not approved. >>>> Because of that, the community has decided to go to ASF with different >>>> name: Apache Olympian. >>>> >>>> The wiki proposal page is located at this URL: >>>> >>>> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/OlympianProposal >>>> >>>> I have also included the current text of that page below. >>>> >>>> Looking forward of comments or questions about this proposal. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Henry Saputra >>>> On behalf of Apache Olympian community >>>> >>>> >>>> = Apache Olympian Proposal == >>>> >>>> == Abstract == >>>> >>>> Olympian (formerly Titan) is software designed to support the >> processing >>> of >>>> graphs so large that they require storage and computational capacities >>>> beyond what a single machine can provide. Scaling graph data processing >>> for >>>> real time traversals and analytical queries is Olympian’s main benefit. >>>> >>>> == Proposal == >>>> >>>> Olympian consists of about 75K of Java code under the Apache 2 license >>>> <http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0>. It supports very large >>>> graphs, with many concurrent transactions and operational graph >>> processing. >>>> Olympian graphs scale with the number of machines in the cluster. >>> Olympian >>>> already integrates with a number of Apache projects: >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Provides native support for the popular property graph data model >>>> exposed by Apache TinkerPop <http://tinkerpop.apache.org/>. >>>> - >>>> >>>> Provides native support for the Gremlin graph traversal language >>> defined >>>> by Apache TinkerPop for programming language agnostic connectivity. >>>> - >>>> >>>> Provides graph persistence solutions with: >>>> - >>>> >>>> Apache Cassandra <http://cassandra.apache.org/> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Apache HBase <https://hbase.apache.org/> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Provides advanced indexing with: >>>> - >>>> >>>> Apache Lucene <https://lucene.apache.org/> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Apache Solr <http://lucene.apache.org/solr/> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Supports global graph analytics and batch graph processing through >>>> the Apache >>>> Hadoop <http://hadoop.apache.org/> framework with processors >>>> implemented >>>> with: >>>> - >>>> >>>> Apache Spark <http://spark.apache.org/> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Apache Giraph <http://giraph.apache.org/> >>>> >>>> >>>> Other software Olympian interfaces with includes: >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> BerkeleyDB >>>> - >>>> >>>> Elasticsearch >>>> >>>> >>>> == Background == >>>> >>>> Marko Rodriguez and Matthias Broecheler, cofounders of the Aurelius >> graph >>>> consulting firm, developed the Titan distributed graph database system >> and >>>> made it available under the Apache 2 license in 2012. Marko is also a >>>> cofounder of the Apache TinkerPop project and the primary developer of >>> the >>>> Gremlin graph traversal language. Other developers of Titan include Dan >>>> LaRocque, Stephen Mallette, Daniel Kuppitz, and Pavel Yaskevich. >> Datastax >>>> acquired Aurelius in February 2015, prior to the Titan 1.0 release in >>>> September 2015. >>>> >>>> Since Titan became available on GitHub, there have been 4434 commits, >> 38 >>>> branches, 23 releases, and 35 contributors. In 2016 there has been >> less >>>> activity as the original authors are busy with other software >>> development, >>>> but there is significant interest from the community. >>>> >>>> == Rationale == >>>> >>>> (1) There are a number of Apache projects that integrate with Titan. >>>> >>>> (2) Apache Atlas (incubating) <http://atlas.incubator.apache.org/> >>>> packages >>>> and ships Titan as an essential component, yet Titan is not part of >>> Apache. >>>> >>>> (3) There are a number of existing users of Titan who are keen to >>> continue >>>> to develop the code. These users provide the basis of the community for >>> the >>>> proposed project. >>>> >>>> == Initial Goals == >>>> >>>> The initial goals are as follows: >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>>> Establish the project governance in The Apache Way and broaden the >>>> community. >>>> - >>>> >>>> Distribute an incubating release aligned with the latest Apache >>>> TinkerPop version and prepared in accordance with the Apache release >>>> process. >>>> - >>>> >>>> Improve the documentation. >>>> - >>>> >>>> Add more unit/scenario tests. >>>> - >>>> >>>> Contribute functional and performance-related enhancements to the >>> code. >>>> >>>> >>>> == Current Status == >>>> >>>> The project will be forked off the existing Titan code base. This code >>> has >>>> been available under the Apache 2 License but has not been subject to >> the >>>> Apache governance. The proposed project will adhere to Apache’s >>> governance >>>> and processes. This is one of the key benefits and reasons for bringing >>> the >>>> project forward as an incubator candidate. >>>> >>>> There are 37 pull requests currently open against Titan, and the last >>> pull >>>> request was merged in June 2016. During incubation, the community will >>>> adopt a voting-based approach to review and commit those changes into >> the >>>> code base in preparation for the first incubating release. >>>> >>>> === Meritocracy === >>>> >>>> The proposed project will adopt the familiar process of progression >> from >>>> submitter to contributor to PMC. The community includes active >> committers >>>> and PMC members on other Apache projects (e.g. Apache TinkerPop, Apache >>>> Atlas (incubating), Apache HBase). >>>> >>>> === Community === >>>> >>>> There is an active and passionate community of existing Titan users. It >>> is >>>> believed that this community will continue to grow and to progress. >> Titan >>>> is well-designed to support different backends, and the community will >>>> naturally grow as more backends are written to fit into the Titan >>>> architecture. Since the Titan 1.0 release, 3 different storage >> providers >>>> have become available. Also once an incubation release is made >> available, >>>> the community will likely see quick adoption from the Apache TinkerPop >>> user >>>> base. >>>> >>>> === Core Developers === >>>> >>>> The community includes developers from a number of vendors (e.g. >> Google, >>>> HortonWorks, IBM, Mindmaps, Classmethod) and users (both academic and >>>> commercial). It contains two active committers and PMC members from the >>>> Apache TinkerPop project, one active committer and PPMC member from >>> Apache >>>> Atlas (incubating), and one committer from Apache HBase. The developers >>>> represent a good mixture of skills, including expertise with each of >> the >>>> supported providers. >>>> >>>> === Alignment === >>>> >>>> The proposed project will be used by or integrated with a number of >> other >>>> Apache components, including (probably) TinkerPop, Atlas, Hadoop, >> Spark, >>>> Cassandra, and HBase. It is logical that the project should also be >> homed >>>> within Apache and subject to the governance principles of Apache. >>>> >>>> == Known Risks == >>>> >>>> === Orphaned products === >>>> >>>> All the companies and developers associated with academic institutions >>> who >>>> are engaged or want to be engaged with Titan are well aware of the open >>>> source philosophy and the importance of open governance of open source >>>> products. Hence, we think the risks of Titan being orphaned are >> minimal. >>>> >>>> === Inexperience with Open Source === >>>> >>>> The project is based on an existing open source code base (Titan 1.0) >> and >>>> the community consists of developers and vendors who have a history and >>>> strategy of open development and governance. The initial committers >>> include >>>> committers and PMC members from other Apache projects. >>>> >>>> === Homogenous Developers === >>>> >>>> The community consists of geographically-dispersed volunteers from >>> academic >>>> and a range of commercial organisations. The geographic diversity >>> includes >>>> North America, Europe, Asia, and Australia. >>>> >>>> === Reliance on Salaried Developers === >>>> >>>> Many of the developers are salaried by the vendors in the community, >> but >>>> the vendors have publicly stated their support for open systems and >>> whilst >>>> we might expect to see some gradual replacement of members of the >>>> community, we believe that it will remain stable and viable into the >>>> future. All members of the community are passionate about the project >> and >>>> are likely to contribute outside of ‘normal working hours’. >>>> >>>> === Relationships with Other Apache Products === >>>> >>>> The proposed project has dependencies on other Apache projects, >> including >>>> Cassandra and HBase, for example. There are Apache projects that depend >>>> upon the availability of an open, scalable graph database. Apache Atlas >>> is >>>> an example of such a project. Apache S2Graph (incubating) >>>> <https://s2graph.incubator.apache.org/> is currently an incubator >>> project >>>> at Apache, however it does not currently implement the Apache TinkerPop >>>> interfaces, although it has an open JIRA for that effort. >>>> >>>> === An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand === >>>> >>>> Whilst the Apache brand will help to attract developers and consumers >> to >>>> the project, it is not for this reason that the proposal is being made. >>> It >>>> is to align the governance of the project with that of the other >>> components >>>> with which it is commonly used and to benefit from the development >>>> principles adopted by Apache. In particular, TinkerPop is Titan’s most >>>> critical component/dependency, one so tight that Titan releases are >>>> contemporaneous or follow TinkerPop releases. >>>> >>>> == Documentation == >>>> >>>> Information on the existing Titan code base can be found at: >>>> http://titan.thinkaurelius.com/ >>>> >>>> == Initial Source == >>>> >>>> The initial source will be based off a fork of the Titan code base. The >>>> latter can be found at: https://github.com/thinkaurelius/titan. The >> fork >>>> to >>>> be used as the base is from: https://github.com/pluradj/titan >>>> >>>> == Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan == >>>> >>>> Since Datastax owns the copyright and trademark for Titan, when the >>>> proposal is accepted to the ASF Incubator, the community will choose a >>>> different name. It is proposed that Titan will enter incubation with >> the >>>> name Olympian. The community will finalize and document the name >> research >>>> during incubation. Individuals in the community have discussed the >>>> possibility of a software grant from Datastax, but Datastax was not >>>> interested in donating code or brand to the ASF. When asked if they >> would >>>> block others taking it to Apache they did not respond. >>>> >>>> == External Dependencies == >>>> >>>> Titan has the following external dependencies: >>>> >>>> * Java 1.8 >>>> >>>> * Apache Maven 3.0.5 (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * JUnit 4.12 (EPL) >>>> >>>> * MRUnit 1.1.0 (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Apache Cassandra (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Jamm (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Metrics 2.1.1 and 3.0.1 (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Sesame 2.7.10 (Eclipse Public License Version 1.0) >>>> >>>> * slf4j 1.7.5 (MIT) >>>> >>>> * Apache HTTPComponents 4.4.1 (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Apache Hadoop 1.2.1 & 2.7.1 (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Apache HBase (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Jackson 1.9.2 & 2.4.4 (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Apache Lucene 4.10.4 (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Elasticsearch 1.5.1 (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Apache Commons Beanutils 1.7.0 (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Joda Time 1.6.2 (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Google ConcurrentLinkedHashMap (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Antlr 2.7.7 And 3.2 (BSD License) >>>> >>>> * ASM 3 & 4 (http://asm.ow2.org/license.html) >>>> >>>> * Apache Zookeeper 3.4.6 (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Jersey 1.9 (CDDL 1.1 and GPL v2) >>>> >>>> * JNA 4.0.0 (LGPL 2.1 and Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Kuali Maven s3 Wagon 1.1.20 (Educational Community License, Version >>> 2.0) >>>> >>>> * Apache Tomcat Jasper 5.5.23 (Apache 2.0 License) >>>> >>>> * Berkeley DB 5.0.73 (Sleepycat License) >>>> >>>> Upon acceptance to the incubator, we would begin a thorough analysis of >>> all >>>> transitive dependencies to verify this information and introduce >> license >>>> checking into the build and release process by integrating with Apache >>>> Rat. In the case where a dependency has an Apache incompatible >> license, >>>> such as Berkeley DB, we will remove or replace it with an appropriate >>>> alternative. >>>> >>>> == Cryptography == >>>> >>>> Titan will support encryption of client-server communication through >> its >>>> use of the Apache TinkerPop Gremlin Server. We do not expect Titan to >>> be a >>>> controlled export due to its use of encryption. >>>> >>>> == Required resources == >>>> >>>> === Mailing lists === >>>> >>>> * priv...@olympian.incubator.apache.org <javascript:;> (with >> moderated >>> subscriptions) >>>> >>>> * comm...@olympian.incubator.apache.org <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> * d...@olympian.incubator.apache.org <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> * u...@olympian.incubator.apache.org <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> === Git Repository === >>>> >>>> The team would like to use git for source control. We request a >> writable >>>> git repo >> https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator-olympian.git, >>>> and mirroring to be set up to GitHub through INFRA. We also request >>>> configuration for continuous integration with Travis CI. >>>> >>>> === Issue Tracking === >>>> >>>> Titan currently uses the GitHub issue tracker and the team would like >> to >>>> migrate all of these issues to the Apache JIRA. >>>> >>>> == Initial Committers == >>>> >>>> Dylan Bethune-Waddell - dylan.bethune.wadd...@mail.utoronto.ca >>> <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Mathias Bogaert - mathias.boga...@gmail.com <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Misha Brukman - mbruk...@google.com <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Felix Chapman - fe...@mindmaps.io <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Sheldon Hall - shel...@mindmaps.io <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Jing Chen (Jerry) He - jerry...@apache.org <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Madhan Neethiraj - mneethi...@hortonworks.com <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Alexander Patrikalakis - a...@me.com <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Jason Plurad - plur...@apache.org <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Suma Shivaprasad - suma...@apache.org <javascript:;> < >> sum...@apache.org >>> <javascript:;>> >>>> >>>> Lindsay Smith - lindsaysm...@google.com <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Filipe Teixeira - fppintoteixe...@gmail.com <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Ted Wilmes - twil...@apache.org <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> == Affiliations == >>>> >>>> Dylan Bethune-Waddell - Jurisica Lab, Princess Margaret Cancer Centre, >>> UHN >>>> >>>> Mathias Bogaert - Independent Contractor >>>> >>>> Misha Brukman - Google >>>> >>>> Felix Chapman - Mindmaps >>>> >>>> Sheldon Hall - Mindmaps >>>> >>>> Jing Chen (Jerry) He - IBM >>>> >>>> Madhan Neethiraj - HortonWorks >>>> >>>> Alexander Patrikalakis - Classmethod, Inc. >>>> >>>> Jason Plurad - IBM >>>> >>>> Suma Shivaprasad - HortonWorks >>>> >>>> Lindsay Smith - Google >>>> >>>> Filipe Teixeira - Mindmaps >>>> >>>> Ted Wilmes - Expero Inc. >>>> >>>> == Sponsors == >>>> >>>> === Champion === >>>> >>>> Henry Saputra - hsapu...@apache.org <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> === Nominated Mentors === >>>> >>>> Alan Gates - ga...@apache.org <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> P. Taylor Goetz - ptgo...@apache.org <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Henry Saputra - hsapu...@apache.org <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> Michael Stack - st...@apache.org <javascript:;> >>>> >>>> === Sponsoring Entity === >>>> >>>> The Apache Incubator >>>> >>> >>
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