Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>>I was trying to stay out, but this *always* comes up in these discussions,
>>and I think it's somewhat disingenuous. First, you have a similar thing in
>>JSTL, and one added and desginers who work with JavaScript on the client
>>side get method calls.
>>
>>It's not differnet than
>>
>Sorry - this was a misfire. I didn't complete this...
>
>The point was that designers have experience with methods as they call them
>in JavaScript, and JSTL has operators as well. Like 'empty', right?
>
designers don't seem to even understand much of the javascript they use.
Things like the 'behaviours' mechanism in DreamWeaver mean they don't
even have to look at it - the code is inserted for them. After some
education, our local webmonkey understands why this:
<a href="foo.html" target="bar" onclick="window.open(this.href,
this.target,....); return false">
is better than this:
<a href="#" onclick="MM_popup('foo.html', 'bar',....)"> [1]
but I still couldn't get him to use it consistently - editing in the
correct JS - until I made him add it as a behaviour in DW. The point is,
designers who are good at both the code side and the art side are rare
(and therefore expensive). I can see why people prefer velocity to JSP,
but why should we expect designers to be comfortable with any
embed-code-in-html solutions when we are all so /un/comfortable with
embed-html-in-code solutions?
What makes me the most ill-at-ease is that when we move from static
mockups to a dynamic site with templating languages (of any colour),
templating demands that we replicate and alter the artifacts produced by
the web designer[2]. We wouldn't accept this if it was java rather than
html we were dealing with - we'd take the layout code and hook it up to
the logic layer with some (hopefully minimal) glue code. XMLC, for
example, shows that this approach can work. Just a thought.
-Baz
[1] MM_popup - or something like this, I forget the exact name they use
- is a wrapper DW puts around window.open(). The second sample is what
DW puts in for popup windows, and it doesnt do its job properly in any
circumstances, let alone when JS is disabled.
[2] You can argue that the web designers should produce dynamic code,
but static mockups are always produced first. So the
replication/alteration will always be done by someone with the
templating approach.
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