The direct translation of “jornaleiro” is “newsboy”. The daily labourer was the person person who carried the gossip from house to house, hence ……. Sorry, I could help myself. John
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of alan machado Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2023 9:31 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Responder: Responder: [GRN] trabalhadores hello John jornaleiro was a term used for daily labourer. suppose something like lavrador (agriculural labourer), Alan On Sun, Jun 25, 2023 at 1:48 PM 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Thank you, John. I only needed a few records investigated of Goans who had travelled to Zanzibar in the 1800s and then out of curiosity I started to randomly look at records which are online. There is an absolute feast of information in these records one can draw on, such as was the child baptised at home or at the parish, on one record, the child was so much in danger, the mid-wife baptised him. Then there are occupations, godparents, parentage. The detail is not consistent throughout Goa. Later records, that is mid-19th century onwards have more detail than prior. Unfortunately, some enquiries from me to my researcher came back as book too degraded or book under reconstruction or book missing. I don't want to restart this conversation but we Goans must do something to preserve those records, I just don't know what. Take care, Selma On Sunday, 25 June 2023 at 00:12:28 BST, John Nazareth <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear Selma When I first went through these records I was concentrating on specific areas to be able to trace my family tree. I had limited time in the Panjim Archives and did not concentrate on the professions of the people as given. And I was learning Portuguese (the critical words) on the fly. Many of them were not at all specific – it was as if they were going through the motions and were giving very general professions such as “employees”. For women, they would say “domestics” or “landowners”. I did notice that a lot of people from Sao Matias (AKA Malar) of Divar has “musician” as a profession. I am amazed at how much can be done with these records. One friend wanted to do some life expectancy studies. It looks like one has to go back over old records a number of times to get more info. I first started learning Portuguese to look over records in the Panjim Archives in 2007. When I came back to Toronto I wrote up some notes, critical words to guide me. So when I went back over the same books in 2016 I found 3 times more records of interest just to trace my family tree. Now I see that we could go back to look at other elements of interest. That is why it is so important to have these records digitized. John From: 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2023 12:36 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Responder: Responder: [GRN] trabalhadores Dear John, Since you've been through 100s of these certificates, perhaps you care to hazard a guess as to how these terms were used in 19th century Goa and if at all they corresponded to caste. The other genealogist I work with and our common friend says they are difficult to put into context or draw some sort of coherent conclusion. Certainly, a job for the academics. Take care, Selma On Saturday, 24 June 2023 at 05:11:36 BST, John Nazareth <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: For what it’s worth, here is a translation of terms from Google Translate that gives us a hint of how the terms might be used (as there is overlap) employee empregado, funcionário ________________________________ servant servo, criado, servidor, empregado, funcionário, criada ________________________________ clerk funcionário, balconista, escriturário, empregado, empregado de escritório, sacristão ________________________________ porter porteiro, carregador, bagageiro, empregado, cabineiro, cerveja preta tipo porter ________________________________ menial criado, capacho, servo, lacaio, empregado, pessoa servil ________________________________ shop assistant caixeiro, empregado, empregada ________________________________ perquisite gratificação, privilégio, emolumentos, empregado ________________________________ door's-man porteiro, carregador, empregado adjective ________________________________ servant empregado ________________________________ appointed empregado journalist jornalista newsboy jornaleiro Regards John From: 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Friday, June 23, 2023 11:42 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Responder: Responder: [GRN] trabalhadores Thanks much, Alan. Take care, Selma On Saturday, 24 June 2023 at 02:09:26 BST, alan machado <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hi Selma Just saw this If it is of any help, Among the penitents list by the Inquisition are 89 whose ethnicity/occupation are given as trabalhador. They include Sudros, Bramenes, Charados, Curumbims. Hope to put this data up soon so anyone interested can access and use Alan On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 8:02 PM sandra lobo <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear Selma. As you know caste and economic conditions do not necessarily coincide. I would say he could be a Brahmin but my advice is that you check with a genealogist like Valmiki at this forum. Dependent of where his family comes from there may be the possibility of throwing some light on the matter. My perception is that migration to Africa was dominated by upper caste/people with minimum financial conditions. Moving so far was costly. But I am not a specialist. Sandra Ataíde Lobo https://giepcip.wordpress.com/ tmn. ++351 930690459 ________________________________ De: 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Enviado: 23 de junho de 2023 14:37 Para: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Assunto: Re: Responder: [GRN] trabalhadores Thank you so much Sandra and Susana. Yes, that would be consistent, trabalhadores is stated in a 1869 baptism certificate and empregado occurs in certificates I've been looking up starting from the 1920s. Now, there is one more conundrum to resolve. Let us assume Mr X, is noted as a trabalhadores in his son's baptism certificate. Is it also possible that X is upper-caste? Because every other signifier for this man is that he is upper-caste. He goes to Zanzibar, holds an job there with an influential British mercantile firm, he educates his son to be a doctor, who rises to the upper-echelons of Portuguese consular positions. Is it possible for 19th century Goa /Zanzibar to have provided such upward mobility? Also he is part of a group of Goans in Zanzibar who are all Portuguese speaking Goans, and his closest friends there are known brahmins. I'm trying to wrap my head around all this. (This is not a post about caste, but the machinations of caste in 19th century Goan-Zanzibari society.) Any input would be appreciated. Warm wishes, Selma On Friday, 23 June 2023 at 14:22:09 BST, sandra lobo <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Yes, you are right but I would say that in 19th century empregado would be more used for white colour and business employees. Sandra Ataíde Lobo https://giepcip.wordpress.com/ tmn. ++351 930690459 ________________________________ De: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> em nome de Susana Sardo <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Enviado: 23 de junho de 2023 13:17 Para: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Assunto: Re: [GRN] trabalhadores Hi Selma They are essentially the same; it depends on the specific historical period you are referring to. During a particular time frame, the term 'trabalhadores' was commonly used. I believe this change occurred sometime in the 20th century, possibly after the 1930sor 40’s when the word 'trabalhador' was replaced by 'empregados'. However, it would be beneficial to consult a contemporary history specialist who could provide more accurate information. Nowadays, 'trabalhador' is used as a sociological category, and 'empregado' has been substituted with the term 'funcionário’. Best susana No dia 23/06/2023, às 13:09, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> escreveu: Dear Pedro, You are absolutely right. Indeed, there is this occupation jornaleiro which appears particularly for women and it seemed odd because when translated it translates to journalist, and it seemed odd that there would be so many journalists in remote villages in Goa :-) Thank you for clearing this up. I wonder if anyone would care to elaborate the exact difference between trabalhadores and empregado. I'm assuming trabalhadores would be working class employee and empregado a white collar office worker. Take care, selma On Friday, 23 June 2023 at 11:13:21 BST, PEDRO MASCARENHAS <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear Selma On some baptism certificates you will find the word «jornaleiro» which means «daily wage worker». For example,… filho de João Rodrigues, profissão jornaleiro (son of João Rodrigues, daily wage worker). There are people who mistake it for journalist. Em alguns certificados de batismo encontrará a palavra «jornaleiro» que significa «trabalhador pago ao dia». Por exemplo,… filho de João Rodrigues, profissão jornaleiro. Há pessoas que a confundem com jornalistas. Cumprimentos Pedro Mascarenhas 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> escreveu no dia sexta, 23/06/2023 à(s) 08:47: Aaaah, yes, thank you very much Susana. Yes, in this context definitely, that would make sense. Warm wishes, Selma On Friday, 23 June 2023 at 08:43:04 BST, Susana Sardo <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear Selma Trabalhadores refers to individuals who are employed by someone, typically a company, and receive compensation for their work. This term is commonly used in Portuguese baptismal certificates to indicate the occupation of the workers or laborers within a factory, for instance. Hope this helps susana No dia 23/06/2023, às 08:26, sandra lobo <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> escreveu: workers Sandra Ataíde Lobo <Outlook-45asdd4h.png><Outlook-5gzm3hbz.png> <Outlook-bfshuoqr.png> https://giepcip.wordpress.com/ tmn. ++351 930690459 ________________________________ De: 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Enviado: 23 de junho de 2023 08:09 Para: Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Assunto: [GRN] trabalhadores Dear all, Need some help in interpreting 'trabalhadores' on baptism certificates. While proprietários and lavrador de palmeiras is easy to interpret, how may I interpret trabalhadores, especially if they were well off enough to send their son to Edinburgh for higher education in the 1800s. many thanks, selma -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. 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