In order to remove ambiguity from the discussion, I think we should make clear 
that:

1) it is about Open Access, not about deposit in repositories per se (though 
such deposit can well be one of the routes to open access as already 
established in Budapest over a decade ago)
2) any repositories worthy of being classified Open Access repositories must 
make their contents fully open, to human eyes and to computers, and enable 
comprehensive indexing by any search engine. 

As for 1), I'm afraid that 'green' has been watered down so much as to be 
practically useless in terms of open access, when it may be possible to get an 
article, as long as one waits a year (or when lucky, half a year), one can only 
see metadata and has to jump through hoops to ask the author for a copy (this 
was always possible, and doesn't constitute open access), and one has to forget 
about re-use or data mining.
As for 2), we must realise that researchers won't "turn to repositories" to 
search the literature. They use search engines. So the relevant contents of 
repositories must be prominently visible in the search results of search 
engines. 

If articles in repositories cannot be easily found and used and re-used in a 
way that can reasonably be expected from true open access material, the 
exercise is useless, from a user's perspective.

Jan


On 13 Jul 2012, at 13:58, Jean-Claude Guédon wrote:

> The discussion presently going on is divisive and not useful. Both Gold and 
> Green are useful. Every little bit helps. Everybody is doing as well as 
> he/she can, and we all know it is not enough. Let us at least trust each 
> others' motives, please.
> 
> Let us, therefore, go back to the basic idea of Peter, regarding the 
> possibility of convening a high-level group of administrators of universities 
> and research institutions. I would add high-level people from granting 
> agencies; researchers should also be involved, especially those who, like 
> Stuart Shieber, have managed getting faculty-initiated mandates. Such a 
> meeting has never been done before. The BIOAI10 meeting in Budapest last 
> February focused on broad strategies rather than concrete strategic moves.
> 
> Stevan has mentioned the group "Enabling Open Scholarship" led by Bernard 
> Rentier. First, Bernard is the perfect person to start the move toward a 
> meeting of the kind suggested by Peter by virtue of his institutional 
> standing. Perhaps this group is the right anchor for such a move. How can we 
> join this group, or how can we work with it? We hear about it episodically, 
> but nothing much seems to have come out of it so far. Would this not be the 
> best occasion to really get this organization off the ground?
> 
> The goal: convene a limited but high-power group of administrators and 
> researchers to develop a policy aiming at effective, immediate implementation 
> of the green road, and do so in a unified manner. The implementation details 
> should constitute a major part of this meeting: we seem to know broadly what 
> we want, but we have not yet fully agreed on the the means to make it 100% 
> effective. If researchers are evaluated only from what is in repositories, 
> they will deposit. Now, why are so few institutions ready to implement such a 
> policy? Are funders of research really ready to apply similar rules to the 
> evaluation of applicants? Questions like these should be at the centre of 
> this meeting.
> 
> The green road will have succeeded when researchers spontaneously turn to 
> repositories to search the literature. We are very far from this and mandates 
> are only one step in the right direction. The goal of this meeting is to 
> build decisive momentum.
> 
> Anyone on board?
> 
> Jean-Claude
> 
> 
> 
> Le vendredi 13 juillet 2012 à 10:00 +0200, Jan Velterop a écrit :
>> 
>> If ever one needed an argument in favour of 'gold' OA, here it is.
>> 
>> Jan
>> 
>> On 13 Jul 2012, at 09:48, [email protected] wrote:
>> 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Le 13 juil. 2012 à 09:32, Peter Murray-Rust <[email protected]> a écrit :
>> > 
>> >> What is the percentage of full-text ACS papers pubished by Liege which 
>> >> are visible at time of publication?
>> > 
>> > None, of course!
>> > Just ask for an e-print when you are in thé ORBi web site and we'll send 
>> > it at once. It's Green, not Gold!
>> > 
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > GOAL mailing list
>> > [email protected]
>> > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> GOAL mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
> _______________________________________________
> GOAL mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal

_______________________________________________
GOAL mailing list
[email protected]
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal

Reply via email to