Al 22/01/13 13:09, En/na Axel Hecht ha escrit: > On 21.01.13 17:35, Toni Hermoso Pulido wrote: >> Al 21/01/13 17:12, En/na Axel Hecht ha escrit: >>> On 21.01.13 16:46, Toni Hermoso Pulido wrote: >>>> Al 21/01/13 16:37, En/na Axel Hecht ha escrit: >>>>> On 21.01.13 16:25, Toni Hermoso Pulido wrote: >>>>>> Al 21/01/13 15:28, En/na Gervase Markham ha escrit: >>>>>>> On 20/01/13 00:11, Pascal Finette | Mozilla wrote: >>>>>>>> Thank you for taking the time to explain - makes perfect sense >>>>>>>> and I >>>>>>>> believe I get it now. So this seems to be (at least partly) a >>>>>>>> question of: >>>>>>>> In which countries will FxOS phones ship and making sure we >>>>>>>> support all >>>>>>>> languages in those countries? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As we all know, Boot2Gecko is open source. And the phones are not >>>>>>> being >>>>>>> shipped by Mozilla. Therefore (to my understanding; I could be >>>>>>> wrong) >>>>>>> the only way Mozilla can influence exactly what software the OEMs >>>>>>> ship >>>>>>> and how they configure it is via our agreement with them which lets >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> use the Firefox logo and Firefox OS name. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So are you (Toni/Ruben) saying that we should make some >>>>>>> locale-related >>>>>>> provision a condition of this agreement? If so, what do you think it >>>>>>> should be? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * the OEM agrees to ship all available signed-off-by-Mozilla >>>>>>> locales? >>>>>>> * the OEM agrees to ship all locales which are official languages of >>>>>>> the country or territory in which they ship? >>>>>>> * something else? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> * the user should have easy means to enable all Mozilla Gaia locales >>>>>> (https://github.com/mozilla-b2g/gaia/blob/master/locales/languages_all.json) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> by default (even if not a complete or signed-off translation were >>>>>> available for some of them yet). Even better, that list should be: >>>>>> http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/tip/toolkit/locales/en-US/chrome/global/languageNames.properties >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> (as people can currentlty select in Desktop Firefox) >>>>>> * Moreover, I think they also should provide all signed-off available >>>>>> translations of the Gaia environment they are using —especially for >>>>>> shared components—. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think that would be enough and, if agreed, we would not need to >>>>>> enter >>>>>> into region per region discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Can you detail on what you mean by "enable"? >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> When I mean enable, I mean that the user can assign the value of the >>>> locale (e.g. 'de') to: >>>> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/DOM/window.navigator.language >>>> and, therefore, HTTP Header Accept-Language, for instance: >>>> http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/l10n/mozilla-aurora/de/file/tip/toolkit/chrome/global/intl.properties >>>> >>>> >>>> (intl.accept_languages) >>>> >>> >>> I'm afraid that's not technically feasible in a reasonable time frame. >>> >>> The current technical limitations are: >>> >>> - one language is the preferred language, exposed as navigator.language >>> and the first entry in the http accept-language header. >>> - that language is part of a finite list of languages that are packaged >>> into the bits we ship on the phone. >>> - that language is used in the "UI". >>> >>> Everything else are fine comments, but for mozilla.dev.b2g much rather >>> than for .governance. >>> >> >> I agree about moving technical details to another place. But only one >> point: What would currently happen if you enabled one language, let's >> say, 'Aragonese' (an) ? I assume UI would be in English and >> navigator.language and first HTTP accept-language header would be 'an'. >> Am I right? Or, otherwise, would it 'break' ? If no breaking, this is >> better than nothing, because you allow third-parties to offer weapps in >> more languages. >> > > I consider that to be horribly broken, yes. Why would one reset a phone > to en-US just to make navigator.language say aragonese? I don't see any > practical value. >
Axel, as I commented, this is not an optimal experience, and I think there should be a disclaimer message. But, it still makes more sense than present scenario. No need to have a UX discussion here. By changing this, Mozilla can allow that some people can start including Aragonese in webapps and some users to test it. Also websites, via content negotiation, can provide Aragonese webpages in case they might have such version. Sociolinguistically speaking, I'm fully aware that 'Aragonese' would not have a English as the best user interface fallback language —I chose a bad language example—, but I'd dare to say that it's not the case of Gaelic or Indian languages, for instance, where English would be a good enough fallback language. With current status, many languages are being blocked from a future participation in the mobile web world via Firefox OS (at least, in Android, this can be overcome with apps such as More Locale 2) Hope this can be understood, -- Toni Hermoso Pulido http://www.cau.cat _______________________________________________ governance mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
