On Sat, Sep 06, 2014 at 10:40:42AM +1000, Steven Haigh wrote: > On 6/09/2014 9:09 AM, Willy Tarreau wrote: > >> Ah, but your facts are in the discussion thread. I've seen very few > >> people supporting the current state of things. > > > > Numbers here aren't on your side : > > > > # cat subscribers.d/*|wc -l > > 830 > > > > 830 persons are currently subscribed to this list, 22 of which have posted > > in this thread, with some not even sharing your opinion. So that's about 98% > > which is hardly "very few" by my standards. > > Oh come on..... Trying to say that because you don't have 400+ replies > saying 'put spam filters on' that it doesn't matter is trivial is > almost.... I don't even know the word for it....
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that 830 persons are still subscribed despite this amount of spam so by definition they still support this. And that is a fact. I urge all people who cannot stand this anymore to unsubscribe, it will already reduce the noise on this list, because the time we spend discussing this is not spent addressing the issue. > > FWIW, I've noticed that there is actually *more* spam than what I do > > receive, simply because my trivial procmail filters catch about half > > of it. I'll see if I find a way to port them to postfix in order to > > reduce this amount for everyone to the level I'm seeing on my side. > > I don't want to try and insult you here - but tools are around to take > care of these problems Yes and tools take time as well. Initially this list was offered to help contributors and developers and with more subscribers it becomes a real burden to maintain because a few are always unsatisfied. What else can I say ? > - and have been done by people much smarter than > you or I... The sad truth is that spammers exploit things like this > list... The archives increase their google rankings for spam and make > things harder for EVERYONE, not just this list. > > > Now please let me remind me something important : this list is provided > > for free to make it easier for developers and users to exchange together. > > It's managed on spare time, it's fast and free to subscribe just like it's > > fast and free to unsubscribe. Some users do indeed subscribe, participate > > to a thread then unsubscribe. There have been about 3 times more > > subscriptions than current subscribers, many of which coming back from > > time to time. So for people for whom this amount of spam is a terrible > > experience, there are a lot of options. However when you're on the service > > side of things, options to fight spam *always* come from extra burden > > dealing > > with false positives. So the situation is clearly far from being perfect, > > but > > it used to be reasonably well balanced for 7 years now. Only very recently > > we started to get subscribed to several lists and probably the address has > > better circulated to spammers resulting in an increase in the amount of > > spam. > > But I certainly won't spend as much time dealing with anti-spam problems as > > I already spent in this sterile thread. > > So you've lost at least half your subscriber base, and you can't see a > problem with this? No. I don't have a goal of saying "my list is bigger than yours". This list is there so that people can exchange. Period. It is natural that people subscribe during the period of a bug report and unsubsribe when they're no more interested. I'm seeing the unsubscribe messages. Most of them happen when there is a long thread like this one because these e-mails pass through their spam filters and they find them boring. > Sorry, but even including ALL posts in this thread over the past few > days, the amount of spam STILL outnumbers the amount of content going > through this list - something that is almost negligent in this day and > age... Yes, I confess that I regularly prefer to dedicate 5 hours to sleep each 24h than to assign one hour to try to optimise spam fighting on this list. This is probably negligent. But I need this time to be able to work on the product which is the subject of this list. I also know that every time we play a bit with some options to combat spam, *I* to have to deal with the people whose mails are eaten. And worst, those whose e-mails are eaten are the ones who have absolutely no problem with the spam either since they're filtered on their side. > So I guess what will it take before something happens? Someone to fork > the list off to somewhere else and fragment your community? Could be an idea. It would save me a lot of time, and I would not have to deal with complains from people whose e-mails are eaten, I'd just have to redirect them to the new list maintainer and get rid of the issue. And we'll also see how many people are bothered by the spam level to the point of making the move to the new list. Willy
