Well, this style that you do see, that I am working to adjust out of, was mostly only created by these accusations of wall of text.
I am now at the point that I do not even really type: * Redundant remarks * Irrelevant statements (in my mind at least) * Keeping each "paragraph" along a single logical step in thought (if at all possible) The thing is, I have included a few other elements that cause issues. As I have found some people complaining about wall-of-texting tend to miss sentences if they are not at the start of a paragraph. To point this out, I tend to make these sentences their own paragraph. Personally, I blame that in the past, accusers have generally been fairly terrible about qualifying what made my wall of text, a wall of text. Forcing me mostly to guess, and adjust. It is also these other previous issues with this, that have just generally lead me to regard Wall-of-texts as not a real accusation. Generally I do read my stuff prior to posting it. I do miss a few things due to being in a rush, yes. Though--I just noticed that in your reply to shorten my response, I appear to have a few newlines in odd places. I am fairly certain my client forces a newline on my messages at column 79... though it has just occurred to me it might not--or that may somehow have an issue propagated elsewhere. I will note, that in threads about coding issues, I agree that text should be short. The code and comments in code should do most of the talking in those. However, this, and other threads that I have gone over board with the others in, there has been very little code applied. So what would normally be present in code and comments in the code, appears to be done in a more verbose manner. Thank you ~Katrina On Monday, July 26, 2010 05:34:35 pm Jonathan Murphy wrote: > Sorry, I typed it in a hurry and yes, you would probably write something > completely different to what I did, it was only an example of the short form > communication that people prefer to read in a discussion list. > > I suppose it also isn't a blanket rule, sometimes (rarely) a wall of text > may be required, particularly when someone is starting a new thread and > trying to explain the problem they are dealing with and also when people are > posting pieces of code. Just try to be as short as possible while > maintaining your point. > > I have the habit of reading everything I post and if I realise I'm not > adding anything to the conversation, I cut chunks of my post out as a > courtesy to the other members. > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 9:23 AM, Katrina Payne <[email protected] > > wrote: > > > Fair enough. > > > > You did however miss some of what I was saying--and added a few things into > > your summary--but most of it is in that summary. It also would feel weird > > to > > type it in that manner. > > > > I will figure something out. > > > > Anyways, I apologise that when others went overboard, I joined in with > > them, > > despite not being familiar to them. > > > > ~Katrina > > > > On Monday, July 26, 2010 05:16:48 pm Jonathan Murphy wrote: > > > Katrina, you've said you are willing to look at complaints and adjust > > > accordingly so please try to write more succinctly. I agree that you tend > > to > > > go off topic and generally write way too much about a certain topic, only > > > serving to drive it further off topic. Example: > > > > > > "To be fully fair: > > > > > > Any of the threads I have participated in have not been that overly > > > technical > > > threads. > > > > > > I think I have participated in the Source 2010/E3 thread and this one of > > > this > > > particular list. That I can just name. > > > > > > I am not the sort to just jump into a C++ thread and random state some > > > retarded notion or another. > > > > > > Please, I would advise you do not make accusations I do. > > > > > > However, you do bring up a point. > > > > > > There have been a few threads in here, that were not that technical in > > any > > > of > > > there nature. > > > > > > Perhaps so we do not get this sort of stuff again, we could do a form of > > > meta- > > > mailing list of sorts?" > > > > > > Becomes: > > > > > > "I haven't found this list to be entirely technical discussions, which I > > > will admit I am not always equipped to discuss. Can anyone suggest a > > place > > > where the non-technical discussions can be explored further?" > > > > > > To which the reply would be, the occassional non-technical discussion on > > > here is tolerated but not if taken overboard by people we are not > > familiar > > > with yet. > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Katrina Payne < > > [email protected] > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > To be fully fair: > > > > > > > > Any of the threads I have participated in have not been that overly > > > > technical > > > > threads. > > > > > > > > I think I have participated in the Source 2010/E3 thread and this one > > of > > > > this > > > > particular list. That I can just name. > > > > > > > > I am not the sort to just jump into a C++ thread and random state some > > > > retarded notion or another. > > > > > > > > Please, I would advise you do not make accusations I do. > > > > > > > > However, you do bring up a point. > > > > > > > > There have been a few threads in here, that were not that technical in > > any > > > > of > > > > there nature. > > > > > > > > Perhaps so we do not get this sort of stuff again, we could do a form > > of > > > > meta- > > > > mailing list of sorts? > > > > > > > > ~Katrina > > > > > > > > On Monday, July 26, 2010 04:46:41 pm Chris Deegan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear rest of list: sorry for feeding the troll/sociopath and adding > > to > > > > this > > > > already ruined topic. > > > > > > > > > > Dear Katrina, > > > > > > > > > > Just in case you are not a troll, I will afford you an explanation. > > > > > > > > > > This list is for the discussion of programming and technical issues > > for > > > > the > > > > Half Life SDK. You see, the way this works best is if people with SDK > > > > related > > > > questions mail, and smart people like many of the regulars here respond > > > > with > > > > useful technical information. This benefits all users of the SDK, it is > > one > > > > of > > > > the best resources. > > > > > > > > > > However, this resource is diminished when trolls or people like > > yourself > > > > turn up and start writing a whole bunch of personal crap, anecdotes, > > > > arguments, non-technical stuff etc. In fact I am now guilty too. Please > > > > think > > > > before you write. Go for a walk or something. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 27/07/2010, at 8:17 AM, Katrina Payne < > > [email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > First off: it was not me that started this OT shullbit drivel. > > > > > > > > > > > > Point the finger in the right place, please. > > > > > > > > > > > > And really, I only played it, because of complete puzzlement as to > > any > > > > other > > > > > > reason you guys seem to respond in this douche baggery type way. > > > > > > > > > > > > Going ala my favourite logical fallacy, "the sheer lack of a > > Nirvana > > > > logical > > > > > > fallacy". > > > > > > > > > > > > As essentially, I get this stuff about me doing walls of text, or > > just > > > > talking > > > > > > crap--what is next is the usually "you think you are better than > > > > everybody > > > > > > else" shullbit accusation. > > > > > > > > > > > > I really have no idea--as nobody, ever, in the history of the > > > > internets, > > > > has > > > > > > ever really taken my "OMG! walls of text" and really bothered to > > > > explain > > > > WHAT > > > > > > any elements are irrelevant. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just came to understand that "wall of text" either means: > > > > > > 1) Reader has chronic ADHD... probably should not be participating > > in > > > > what > > > > is > > > > > > essentially a written medium > > > > > > 2) Reader has a really low reading comprehension level. After a few > > > > previous > > > > > > threads, this seems about right. > > > > > > 3) Reader somehow has decided because I am apparently female, and > > > > speaking > > > > > > confidently... I must think I am better than them--or some such > > > > retarded > > > > notion > > > > > > like that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, understand, I tried to reroute this by mentioning the trolls > > > > dolls-- > > > > as > > > > > > you can see in this discussions' history. Take a lighter side of > > > > things. > > > > > > Possibly try to defuse this situation. > > > > > > > > > > > > But no, I play the sexist card once, and suddenly I show my true > > > > colours. > > > > > > Which to be really fair, there have been previous threads where, I > > have > > > > played > > > > > > it, but in a joking manner to indicate embarrassment--just to show > > a > > > > different > > > > > > use I did for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, then, come off that high fvcking horse of yours. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, sometimes I am wrong. I can admit that. Though, from the looks > > of > > > > things, > > > > > > I am the only person here that is willing to admit to this. > > > > > > > > > > > > Right--but between either what the correct issues here of chronic > > ADHD > > > > or > > > > low > > > > > > reading comprehension, you probably have not gotten to this > > paragraph. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyways--look, I must apologise if I have am being bitter. > > > > > > > > > > > > I just hate being told I took something OT, that somebody else did > > long > > > > before > > > > > > me. I also hate having these walls of text complains come up for a > > > > medium > > > > that > > > > > > IS ONLY EVER DONE IN TEXT. > > > > > > > > > > > > If we were not to have walls of it ever, we would be doing this on > > IRC > > > > or > > > > > > twitter... not a mailing list software. > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a great day. > > > > > > ~Katrina > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, July 26, 2010 04:08:39 pm Chris Deegan wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Omfg. Can we stay on topic. And Katrina, you wanna play the sexism > > > > card > > > > > > without any reason? Nice one, really shows your true colours. > > Please > > go > > > > troll > > > > > > some other list. I'm tired of your bullshit OT drivel. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Thanks! > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On 27/07/2010, at 7:56 AM, Katrina Payne < > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> -blinks- > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> You know--I should simply start collecting those dolls now. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> As from a lot of what people say, it appears to be a thing I > > should > > > > > > collect. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Go all Meme Bobeck on that stuff. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> ~Katrina > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> On Monday, July 26, 2010 03:49:39 pm Casey Doran wrote: > > > > > >>>> ITT: Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Katrina Payne > > > > > > <[email protected] > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>>> Right--so back to the kitchen with me--or whatever crap I > > obviously > > > > do > > > > > > not > > > > > >>>>> know, as I got a few details wrong and lack a Y chromosone... > > or > > > > some > > > > > > such > > > > > >>>>> ridiculous notion. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Because we all know, none of you ever get any minor details > > wrong. > > > > Which > > > > > >>>>> means, you are never talking crap. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> And trust me--I do not rant on every bloody thread in this > > list. > > In > > > > > > fact, > > > > > >>> I > > > > > >>>>> think there have been maybe five or six. So, if this list is > > made > > > > up of > > > > > >>>>> five or > > > > > >>>>> six threads, than I agree. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Have a good day. > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> ~Katrina > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> On Monday, July 26, 2010 03:43:24 pm Cory de La Torre wrote: > > > > > >>>>>> We need to turn this HLCoders list to Katrina Payne "Never > > Stops > > > > > >>> talking" > > > > > >>>>>> List. > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Katrina Payne < > > > > > >>>>> [email protected] > > > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Protip: I am not doing anything. > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Unless you can state what it is, and evidence I am doing it. > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Nobody has, so I am going to say I am not doing anything that > > I > > > > have > > > > > >>>>> not > > > > > >>>>>>> already apologised for and adjusted on. > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> ~Katrina > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> On Monday, July 26, 2010 03:34:38 pm Dexter wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>> Katrina, > > > > > >>>>>>>> Pro-tip, you're still doing it.. and it doesn't have to do > > with > > > > > >>>>> Spanish > > > > > >>>>>>> :D > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Katrina Payne > > > > > >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Monday, July 26, 2010 03:01:05 pm Rodrigo 'r2d2rigo' > > Diaz > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Katryna, I find amusing how you always talk about crap you > > > > don't > > > > > >>>>> have > > > > > >>>>>>> a > > > > > >>>>>>> clue > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> about, and rant for 20-30 lines. The signature said "Nuevo > > > > > >>>>> Hotmail", > > > > > >>>>>>> and > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> it's a campaign for the new MSN Live! features being > > deployed. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Look, I made a mistranslation for Neuvo for a word that > > sounds > > > > > >>>>> similar > > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>>>> English nova. Which the Spanish word that pronounces > > similar > > to > > > > > >>> the > > > > > >>>>>>> English > > > > > >>>>>>>>> nova has the translation I did. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Also, to be fair, I really have no idea why any website > > would > > > > need > > > > > >>>>> a > > > > > >>>>>>> new > > > > > >>>>>>> web > > > > > >>>>>>>>> domain just to advertise new features. Or if it is local, > > why > > > > they > > > > > >>>>> are > > > > > >>>>>>> still > > > > > >>>>>>>>> using ".com". > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> So, I saw this site, and generally just assumed it was a > > > > phishing > > > > > >>>>>>> site--or > > > > > >>>>>>>>> some form of knock off. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> I will assume that this is another bad habit I have > > attributed > > > > > >>> from > > > > > >>>>> my > > > > > >>>>>>> days on > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the web (this stuff appeared a lot more often in the late > > > > nineties, > > > > > >>>>> and > > > > > >>>>>>> early > > > > > >>>>>>>>> 00s). > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> There are a few of these that I need to adjust as they are > > no > > > > > >>>>> longer > > > > > >>>>>>> helpful-- > > > > > >>>>>>>>> and only hurt me. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Yes, he looks Spanish/South American. Yes, he doesn't have > > a > > > > clue > > > > > >>>>>>> about > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> English. Yes, he doesn't have a clue about programming. > > Just > > > > > >>>>> another > > > > > >>>>>>> kiddie > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> with the "OMG i want to maek t3h Kaunter > > > > Straiekk!!11oneoneon1! > > > > > >>>>>>> 1eleelven!!1" > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> idea. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Yes, I understand that this likely is a "OMG! I got teh > > roxxers > > > > > >>>>> ideas!" > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> And yes, I understand what that feeling is like. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> I also understand what it feels like to learn that you > > cannot > > > > do > > > > > >>>>> that. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> I also understand the feeling of hitting the books to get > > to > > > > the > > > > > >>>>> point > > > > > >>>>>>> where > > > > > >>>>>>>>> you could conceivably do it. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> There is just one requirement. Somebody to be patient with > > this > > > > > >>>>> crap. > > > > > >>>>>>> Every > > > > > >>>>>>>>> programmer tends to have cycle that we all have gone > > through > > to > > > > > >>> get > > > > > >>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>> our > > > > > >>>>>>>>> current spot. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> The main reason we tend to hate these people is we feel > > > > > >>> embarrassed > > > > > >>>>> for > > > > > >>>>>>> when > > > > > >>>>>>>>> we were that stupid. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Everybody here has done this stuff at one time or another. > > It > > > > is > > > > > >>>>>>> essentially a > > > > > >>>>>>>>> form of being a toddler in the world of game design. > > Whether > > we > > > > > >>> did > > > > > >>>>>>> this > > > > > >>>>>>> at > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the age of five, or at the age of sixteen (oh dear sweet > > > > merciless > > > > > >>>>>>> Eris, > > > > > >>>>>>> was I > > > > > >>>>>>>>> bad for this when I was sixteen), or into your mid > > > > twenties--some > > > > > >>>>>>> people > > > > > >>>>>>> are > > > > > >>>>>>>>> in this stage in their fourties and fifties. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Now, you can generally frown, and dislike that the toddler > > is > > > > > >>>>>>> there--due > > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>>> your own embarrassment from the days where we all did the > > same > > > > > >>>>> thing. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Which I think reeks of immaturity, BTW. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Or you can change these toddlers' diapers. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> One reek or the other people. I have chosen mine--and it is > > one > > > > > >>>>> that a > > > > > >>>>>>> few > > > > > >>>>>>>>> tend to have issues agreeing. I can understand this. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Yes, I know I am wrong (oh damn--have I been wrong lots)... > > the > > > > > >>>>> thing > > > > > >>>>>>> is... we > > > > > >>>>>>>>> are all just fvcking this up as we go along. Especially the > > > > > >>>>> successful > > > > > >>>>>>> people. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> ~Katrina > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Nothing to see here, citizens. Move along. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 2010/7/26 Katrina Payne <[email protected]> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Well the signature appeared to be for "Neuvo Hotmail". > > That > > > > is > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> neuvohotmail.com . > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Which does not strike me as any name any spanish hotmail > > > > > >>> service > > > > > >>>>>>> would > > > > > >>>>>>>>> ever > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> think to use. Neuvo translates roughly to "no go", > > > > > >>>>> "nonexistant", > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "nothing", > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "nada", "not there". > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, and I will give you on the LAN version being the > > only > > > > > >>>>> current > > > > > >>>>>>> real > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reason. I said a few times that I considered the other > > > > reasons > > > > > >>>>> to > > > > > >>>>> be > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> entirely > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> fictional at the current time. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Even to the point of the ridiculous comparison to > > C'thulhu > > > > and > > > > > >>>>>>> Activision > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> as > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the only reason that the others could work. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Though, I am very leery of believing most of the > > countries > > > > said > > > > > >>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>> be > > > > > >>>>>>> high > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> in > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> piracy really are. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> As well, Canada is currently in that list of countries > > with > > > > > >>>>> large > > > > > >>>>>>> amounts > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> of > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> software piracy. Which really makes sense as well some > > > > > >>> companies > > > > > >>>>> are > > > > > >>>>>>>>> trying > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> push we get treated, for shipping and what not, much like > > how > > > > > >>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>> USA > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> treats > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> trade with China, Russia and Cuba--it is there, but > > frowned > > > > > >>>>> upon. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> However, I dunno--if he really was a Latin Pirate, using > > a > > > > > >>>>> Spanish > > > > > >>>>>>> Hotmail > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> that for some reason was locally called "not there > > hotmail", > > > > I > > > > > >>>>> doubt > > > > > >>>>>>> he > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> would > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ask the official list for a way to help. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I dunno--and again... the lack of confirmation of the OP > > > > makes > > > > > >>>>> this > > > > > >>>>>>> just > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> seem > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> like an even more ridiculous troll. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> However, not going to take the chance it is not, and help > > > > him, > > > > > >>>>> if > > > > > >>>>> he > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> requires > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> it. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Oh and defend my own pride--or something silly like that. > > Or > > > > at > > > > > >>>>>>> least > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> explain > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> why I am thinking silly stuff. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ~Katrina > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 25, 2010 09:17:23 pm ZuM wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Well about the situation you said the lan party is the > > only > > > > > >>>>> reason > > > > > >>>>>>> i > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> believe > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> someone would use the Won version :P > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Or to pirate the game, because if you look you can find > > > > > >>>>> several > > > > > >>>>>>> pirate > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> servers, specially in countries with a very high level > > of > > > > > >>>>> piracy > > > > > >>>>>>> like > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Brasil > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Also Katrina you mentioned about hotmail, the service is > > > > > >>>>> localized > > > > > >>>>>>> and > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> available in a lot of countries, like Argentina, Spain, > > > > > >>> etc... > > > > > >>>>> but > > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> adress is always .com only, just like in Gmail, and that > > > > > >>>>> signature > > > > > >>>>>>> is > > > > > >>>>>>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> localized version for some country :P > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2010/7/25 Katrina Payne <[email protected]> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, in my situation, I do not have a computer that > > could > > > > > >>>>>>> comfortably > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> run > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> either OS Steam is released for. If I could afford it, > > I > > > > > >>>>> would > > > > > >>>>>>> get > > > > > >>>>>>> an > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Apple > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> computer and get the games on that system. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I really do not understand windows enough to really run > > it. > > > > > >>>>> As > > > > > >>>>>>> well-- > > > > > >>>>>>>>> it > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> is > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> a > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> different paradigm of sorts, and I have long since > > learned > > > > > >>>>> that > > > > > >>>>>>> it > > > > > >>>>>>> is > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> not a > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> bad > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> OS, I just really have no clue how to get it to > > function. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> However, in the two situations presented here, I win > > the > > > > > >>>>> lottery > > > > > >>>>>>> and > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> start > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> buying Apple products or Steam is released on Linux, I > > > > > >>> would > > > > > >>>>> pay > > > > > >>>>>>> for > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> games > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that I enjoy. Even if they are not on sale. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Though, the really odd thing is: Valve seems wary of > > > > > >>>>> releasing > > > > > >>>>>>> on > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Linux > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> due > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the reasons of "people on Linux want stuff for > > > > free". > > > > > >>>>>>> Though > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> most > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> users are more anal than me, about paying for stuff. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Then on Windows when I cannot afford a piece of > > software, I > > > > > >>>>> get > > > > > >>>>>>> a > > > > > >>>>>>> nice > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> loud > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> choir chorus of, "just get it cracked" > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Meh--I dunno. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> There are reasons to have a nonSteam Half Life Mod. > > Most > > of > > > > > >>>>> them > > > > > >>>>>>> are > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> hypothetical, and are not looking like they will happen > > in > > > > > >>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>> near > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> future. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Then we have the one that people at LAN parties, or run > > > > > >>>>> their > > > > > >>>>>>> systems > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> standalone every now and again tend to complain about: > > if > > > > > >>>>> they > > > > > >>>>>>> cannot > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> get > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> outside their immediate network, the game no longer > > > > > >>>>> functions. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> So, while I can understand the OP's rationale for > > wanting > > a > > > > > >>>>>>> nonSteam > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Halflife > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mod if it follows a very legal sense. I am still aware > > that > > > > > >>>>>>> there > > > > > >>>>>>> is > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> more > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> reason to doubt that the OP has considered these > > reasons > > > > > >>>>> than > > > > > >>>>>>> there > > > > > >>>>>>> is > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> think he is using them. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The thing is: this is looking more and more like a > > troll > > > > > >>>>> post, > > > > > >>>>>>> without > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> any > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> further update from the OP. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> And well, considering we have had a few recent posts > > that > > > > > >>>>> were > > > > > >>>>>>> along > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> lines > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> of "testing" and that Gmail invite (thank goodness! > > Those > > > > > >>>>> are > > > > > >>>>> so > > > > > >>>>>>> rare > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> hollowed~!)... I am starting to think that this may > > have > > > > > >>>>> been a > > > > > >>>>>>> troll. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Which has largely resulted in me, and a few others, > > > > > >>>>> preaching > > > > > >>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> choir > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> about various subject matters present. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Meh, usually it is at this point the OP comes in, to > > try > > to > > > > > >>>>>>> confirm > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> this > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> was not a troll post, or something. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ~Katrina > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 25, 2010 05:23:03 pm Harry Jeffery > > wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I pay for things that are fairly priced. That means > > all > > > > > >>>>> valve > > > > > >>>>>>> games, > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> indie games and games that are on sale in steam. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26 July 2010 00:14, Katrina Payne > > > > > >>>>>>> <[email protected]> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah--I really do not agree with software piracy. I > > > > > >>> tend > > > > > >>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>> be > > > > > >>>>>>>>> very > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> anal > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself with any agreements and contracts are signed. > > > > > >>>>> People > > > > > >>>>>>> who > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> have > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> credit > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> due get it and all. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This was why I listed a few hypothetical situations > > > > > >>>>> where a > > > > > >>>>>>>>> cracked > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> game > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> may > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be needed to work without it being for the wrong > > > > > >>>>>>> reasons--and > > > > > >>>>>>> one > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> has > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appeared a few times (the LAN one). > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though, the only way most of those would work, is if > > > > > >>>>>>> Activision > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> bought > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Valve-- > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or some other similar occurrence that best fits in a > > > > > >>>>> pulp > > > > > >>>>>>> horror > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> novelette > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> than > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this mailing list. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And like I said: even if he did get to a point where > > he > > > > > >>>>>>> could > > > > > >>>>>>>>> start > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> work... it > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would never get in any real direction. Would not work > > > > > >>>>> quite > > > > > >>>>>>> as > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> effectively > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a lot harder to arrange than if he just simply did > > > > > >>>>> one > > > > > >>>>>>> that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> could > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> (for > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current moment) do stuff with the Steam Halflife. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh and seeing as how I am looking to join the Pirate > > > > > >>>>> Party > > > > > >>>>>>> of > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Canada, > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> would > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be best to note, that I, and most other people > > > > > >>> involved, > > > > > >>>>>>> frown > > > > > >>>>>>> on > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> people > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going, "Pirates?! OMG! FREE CRAP!" > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I tend to spend more on movies, music and games > > > > > >>> than > > > > > >>>>>>> most > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> people > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> who > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> do > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not follow these ideas. If anything, since looking > > into > > > > > >>>>>>> Piracy, > > > > > >>>>>>> I > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> tend > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> be > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MORE anal about making certain developers, artists > > and > > > > > >>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>> people > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for their works gets what they are owed. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just do not like really invasive copy protection > > > > > >>>>> schemes > > > > > >>>>>>> and > > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> unnecessary > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control of the exchange of cultural and information. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I however think that the people who worked hard on > > this > > > > > >>>>>>> stuff > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> should > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> get > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> paid > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for it, and should be able to eat, have shelter and > > all > > > > > >>>>> that > > > > > >>>>>>> other > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> fine > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that paying them is suppose to give them. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And I am not alone in my views of how this stuff > > works. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~Katrina > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 25, 2010 04:47:17 pm Jonathan Murphy > > > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cracked versions of Half-Life/Source games used to > > > > > >>> (are > > > > > >>>>>>> still?) > > > > > >>>>>>>>> be > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called Non-Steam distributions because you didn't > > need > > > > > >>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>> have > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Steam > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installed to play them, they instead were > > distributed > > > > > >>>>> with > > > > > >>>>>>> hacked > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> binaries that tricked the game into thinking it was > > > > > >>>>> being > > > > > >>>>>>>>> launched > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with Steam. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only limitation to making a mod that works with > > > > > >>>>>>> Non-Steam > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> distros > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be having the correct version of the source to > > > > > >>>>> build > > > > > >>>>>>> your > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> hl.dll/ > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> server.dll. Which might be fairly difficult to find. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And as encouragement of piracy is not condoned on > > this > > > > > >>>>> list > > > > > >>>>>>> I'd > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagine you won't find a lot of help here anyway. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/07/2010, at 1:16 PM, Katrina Payne > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 24, 2010 04:44:19 pm Jonas > > > > > >>> 'Sortie' > > > > > >>>>>>> Termansen > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I find it ammusing that you follow the trend and > > > > > >>>>> use a > > > > > >>>>>>> more > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> complicated vocabulary as well which will > > probably > > > > > >>>>>>> leave > > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> op > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confused when he runs this through google > > > > > >>>>> translate. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #ifdef __INTELLIGENCE__ > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just wrap my posts in ifdefs if I don't want > > some > > > > > >>>>>>> people > > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> read > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And when I don't want anybody to read them at all, > > > > > >>> I > > > > > >>>>>>> encode > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> them > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> in > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EBCDIC. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #endif > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think this guy even has a codebase, at > > > > > >>> least > > > > > >>>>>>> that's > > > > > >>>>>>>>> how > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand his post, that he is looking for a > > > > > >>>>> Non-Steam > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Half-Life > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SDK. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He sounds like he is able to make Steam-based > > > > > >>>>> Half-Life > > > > > >>>>>>> mods > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> has > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found some Non-Steam mods, and that he is now > > > > > >>>>> confused > > > > > >>>>>>> how > > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> do > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though, this HL.dll thing sounds weird to me. Do > > we > > > > > >>>>> have > > > > > >>>>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> source > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> code > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for that? > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or > > view > > > > > >>>>> the > > > > > >>>>>>> list > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> archives, > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please visit: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #ifdef __INTELLIGENCE__ > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extern "Geek Humour" { > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well you can always encode them in preISO ASCII-7. > > > > > >>>>> Maybe > > > > > >>>>>>> also > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> have > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> translated to 1337 speak based Aremaic, with a few > > > > > >>>>> items > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> demostrated > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only via > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perl 4 base Jephs (that is, "pretty" code, > > sometimes > > > > > >>>>>>> ASCII > > > > > >>>>>>> Art > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> essentially does nothing when ran), then encrypted > > > > > >>>>> using > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Megatoyko's > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> update > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schedule for your key. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }; > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> #endif > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To be fair. Half Life DOES kind of predate Steam. > > He > > > > > >>>>> may > > > > > >>>>>>> have > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> found > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a few > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> items and elements that were done with Half Life > > > > > >>>>> prior > > > > > >>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Steam's > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> creation. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This means he does not have to worry about quite as > > > > > >>>>>>> strict > > > > > >>>>>>> of a > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> copy > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> protection scheme. Which has been one of Steam's > > > > > >>>>> biggest > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> complaints. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mostly > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for games, that lock out, if they cannot talk with > > a > > > > > >>>>>>> Steam > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> server > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confirm > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are okay for it. Which does kind of suck, if > > > > > >>> you > > > > > >>>>> are > > > > > >>>>>>> not > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> able > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to talk to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steam on the current computer you are on. Be it for > > > > > >>>>> Valve > > > > > >>>>>>> going > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> under, or > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Valve shutting down Steam--but not continuing > > > > > >>> certain > > > > > >>>>>>> loved > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> games > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that used > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this copy protection scheme or you are doing a LAN > > > > > >>>>> party > > > > > >>>>>>> of > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> sorts. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though a con is that he would also be using an > > > > > >>>>>>> excessively > > > > > >>>>>>> OLD > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> code > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> base. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We also have a few people that mentioned in the > > > > > >>>>>>> hlds_linux > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> mailing > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list about > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a project to make a Source Workalike that can get > > > > > >>>>> mods > > > > > >>>>>>> that > > > > > >>>>>>> do > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> not > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use Valve > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> properties in them (such as models, gadgets and > > what > > > > > >>>>> not) > > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> work > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without Half > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Life 2. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though my understanding was that the Source > > > > > >>> Workalike > > > > > >>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>> run > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Mods > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that do not > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contain Valve IP in them (that is, taking models > > and > > > > > >>>>> what > > > > > >>>>>>> not > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> from > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Half Life > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1, Half Life 2, Half Life Episodes, TF, TFC, CS, > > > > > >>>>> CS:S, > > > > > >>>>>>> Blue > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Shift., > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc., > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc., etc) was only still, at the very most in an > > > > > >>>>> Alpha > > > > > >>>>>>> state, > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> if > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> at > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stage of things. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So--there could be a few things that he COULD be > > > > > >>>>> trying > > > > > >>>>>>> to > > > > > >>>>>>> have > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> a > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nonSteam > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Half Life Mod run... > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just chances are, if he can get them to run--he > > > > > >>> could > > > > > >>>>> not > > > > > >>>>>>> get > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> them > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to run well > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any way. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~Katrina > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the > > list > > > > > >>>>> archives, > > > > > >>>>>>> please visit: > > > > > >>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > > > >>>>> archives, > > > > > >>>>>>> please visit: > > > > > >>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > > archives, > > > > > >>>>>>> please visit: > > > > > >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> -- > > > > > >>>>>> Gear Dev > > > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > > archives, > > > > > >>>>> please visit: > > > > > >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > > archives, > > > > > >>>>> please visit: > > > > > >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > > archives, > > > > > >>> please visit: > > > > > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > > archives, > > > > > > please visit: > > > > > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > >>> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > > > > please visit: > > > > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
