----- Original Message -----
From: "HL Server" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> At 10:11 AM 09/26/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >Well, yer definately playing Devil's advocate here (I thought that was
> >Eric's job). Anyway, yer comments about "pretend" software developers
was
> >unfounded and uncalled for. I'll be the first to THWACK you for that
one.
>
> How so? People who can program (and I am one of them) write a program ...
> they "release" it ... (basically just share it) ... They set up a web site
> and forums and support it and others who use it support it and share their
> experiences with the software .... Money never changed hands, and the
> software is not copy-written or anything and not even recognized by the
> software manufacturer for the software it is in reference to ...
"Pretend"
> may not be a good word for it, but what would you call it then?
Money doesn't have to exchange hands for it to be a real program. Also,
many of the programs are copyrighted, even the open souce ones. No,
"pretend", or any other word except for "3rd Party" would work.
> >As for the rest of your rantings...I'm disappointed in your viewpoint as
it
> >has no constructiveness in the gaming community, business, or society for
> >that matter. Talk about a bleak world. I dare you post this type of
> >mentality to the Linux list. If this philosophy of yours (or devil's
> >advocate) is how things were done in this HL community, then I'd be the
> >first one to leave. Because, it is that mentality that everyone thinks
that
> >Microsoft has (which is, for the most part, false) and not welcoming at
> >best.
>
> You hit the nail on the head Linux (altho I prefer Unix) ... HalfLife is
> not Open Source now, is it? There is one entity which controls the
Open source has nothing to do with anything we're discussing here. Take a
step back and re-read some of your comments and maybe you'll see the type of
philosophy you're trying to apply here.
> direction of the software ... yes they will take email suggestions .. yes
> they will revel in people writing third party utils for their product ...
> but no one determines what goes on with their product but them ... To you
> a bleak world, to me .. makes perfect sense and no one that wrote a third
> party utility, runs a free server .. whatever ... should expect anything
in
> return for their efforts and time put in ...
So, what you are saying here, is that a company shouldn't listen to their
customers but rather just create some shit, throw it against the wall, and
see if and what parts stick? I prefer the philosophy of a company listening
to its customers, or even more importantly, those ideas and suggestions from
3rd party developers that are working hard (for free) to extend their
original product (which they get paid) based on the feedback and experiences
of them and the players they are in contact with.
If Valve took the stance of being some sort of god game developer, I'm not
sure how many would stick around and waste their time. Especially, when
better gaming engines are coming out and not just patched up old ones that
gain additional features not really requested while ignoring those that are
giving them sound enhancements that they really don't have to do much work.
Man, they would be so f00ked up in the head to not work with all of these
other developers that aren't even drawing funds from their budget but at the
same time extending their product faster than they are.
> I have written countless utilities in support of software and never
> received anything from it but the satisfaction of little utilities I wrote
> running on computers all over the world ... I thought that was awesome
> myself ... but I never expected anything in return from the author of the
> program ... When he made changes, I had to adjust ... I didn't tell him
> what to code ... I thought my utils were flashier and better than some he
> wrote for his software ... Fact of the matter is, his worked .. plain jane
> ... Same applies to VALVe .. their software works as is ...
Well, I really don't know at what level your utilities are integrated with
the primary one, but at some point in integration and feature extentions,
changes or hooks are required in the main code. If these are not
incorporated and you can't continue without it, then it's time to move on to
another more agreeable community. This is all that Tony is saying and
doing.
> >If this is truely your beliefs, I hope you never have kids...or ones that
> >follow your advise...society would be a better place without them... =\
>
> I have 2 kids, and another due any day (actually could be any minute) ...
I
> am old .. I am wise .. ignore me ...
Well, don't mistake knowledge with wisdom..... from my perspective, it looks
like you need a little more wisdom in business ethics.... at least some
better ethics that would be more beneficial than some authoratarian
corporate hierarchy. =\
HoundDawg
http://www.phpGamingSite.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com
http://www.unitedadmins.com/hlbp
