I still think they're treating the symptom rather than the problem. Though granted - sometimes you have no choice.
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Patrick Shelley Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:57 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Scoring - an open letter to Valve :) The *paying* players are THE most important aspect of this. Im on both sides of the fence, but im with the players all the way on this. You only got to check the forums to see just how many paying players moan about lieing cheating server admins who manipulate the system. It stinks. They wont care one iota for de-listing servers or GSP's moaning about their IP's. They'll embrace this. You watch. Players are fickle - i dont run a clan anymore, i got sick of people joining, leaving, joining, leaving etc etc. This week alone i seen 2 mates wear 2 different tags. Most players dont give a hoot for communities, they want to belong, but when they do, they think the grass is greener on the other side. http://www.sidesteal.com/images/ach.png This scoring system will be one of the best things valve has done for its customers. On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 2:35 AM, Karl Weckstrom <[email protected]> wrote: > Yep. Agreed. > > I think that WHATEVER the solution is, it should reward the people that > work hard to make their community popular. > > The current solutions out there don't quite do that... Every time I send > out a game event, 50 people leave the steamgroup even though they > voluntarily joined - not exactly the intended effect :) While people still > join the server, there's no telling how many people from Absurdistan will > connect, see their ping responses are apparently being delivered by UPS, > then quit - which tells me that the whole Steamgroup system needs some more > control around it - but in a way where it's still useful to server > operators. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of msleeper > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 10:31 PM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Scoring - an open letter to Valve :) > > Yeah, the best of us have all been there. 3v3 Dustbowl in a 32 man > server for weeks. Eventually you find enough like-minded people and add > enough people to your friends list and spam the hell out of the best > feature that has ever been created, Invite To Game, that you hit a > critical mass and can stand up on your own. > > > On Sat, 2009-03-14 at 02:25 +0000, steve grout wrote: > > quote | > > > > But at the same time, I can see why others would do it. They are simply > doing one thing - trying to attract players in this extremely difficult > market. |/quote > > > > yes they are trying to attract people but in a dishonest and VERY lazy > way.. it shoes that they are not prepared to put the work in to populate the > servers... i know for one that i have sat alone many an hour on a server to > get people in. Fake slot = lazy imho > > > > > > Karl Weckstrom wrote: > > > I've been meaning to post about the whole subject of Server Scoring, > but I wanted to read everything you guys posted, let it sink in and all > that. > > > > > > I'm glad you've been putting some thought into this - but I hope you > take a step back and look at the bigger picture. I hope you'll read this and > also let it soak in, even if it's just one man's opinion. > > > > > > Now - I own and partially run the Trashedgamers.com community. We're > quite new, only around about 6 months. But in the golden days of old, I ran > another gaming community called "Railbait" (www.railbait.com, now > defunct). > > > > > > 10 years ago, things were a lot different. Running a gameserver means > you were actually spent some money on bandwidth and hardware as opposed to > today. If you ran a server and it was fairly decently policed, you were > pretty much guaranteed it would be popular. At the height of Railbait's > times, we had nearly 200 player slots filled 24x7 and it was nearly > effortless to accomplish. We never had to work to fill servers, people would > voluntarily pug some people and do it themselves. People were just HAPPY > that they had a new place to play! > > > > > > Times are much different now. Bandwidth is cheap, and anyone with mommy > or daddy's cable connection can potentially run a server, or they can pay a > few bucks a month and rent one. Webhosting costs next to nothing. Symmetric > fiber lines are $70/mo for 20/20 in certain areas, etc. > > > > > > So it's time you realized something, Valve - and take this to heart: > There's such a huge surplus of servers out there now, it practically takes > an act of God to actually make any given one popular. Players now have SO > many choices (dare I say, TOO many choices) that they have become extremely > jaded. A tight-knit community is so incredibly hard to form today, many > server owners simply don't bother with the extra work that comes along with > community building. > > > > > > The problem (and solution) you discuss on the Teamfortress blog is an > interesting read and is absolutely a step in the right direction. However I > think what you're seeing with these "Bad" servers is a SYMPTOM of the real > problem - NOT the problem itself. > > > > > > Now, don't get me wrong - if I were to join a server advertising 30/32 > players only to find it was empty or close to it, I would be annoyed > personally - and we certainly don't use this particular tactic at > TrashedGamers. But at the same time, I can see why others would do it. They > are simply doing one thing - trying to attract players in this extremely > difficult market. They WANT people to play there because they have put forth > the time and effort to put up these servers, websites and what not in an > attempt to run a successful, thriving community. While I might disagree with > the method, I don't find any malice in its intent. I'm not trying to justify > their actions, I'm simply good at playing Devil's Advocate. > > > > > > Now - you might argue that you made this SteamCommunity.com > infrastructure to help build communities, but this is also flawed in a > sense. I assume that you built this infrastructure so members who frequent > certain servers, have similar interests (like cookies) and what not will > have a common meeting place. Personally, we use it as a userbase for filling > our servers. > > > > > > Toss up an event, and the server will be full in under 5 minutes, and > for us - stay that way sometimes for several days. But this too has a dark > side as I'm SURE you're aware. Man, we invite everybody. Since everyone's > community ID is out there in the open for anyone to grab, inviting massive > amounts of people in a fairly short time is trivial. We do it. That > Kifferstupidwhatever group does it. I would argue that ALL the top 10-20 > groups have done it or are still actively doing it. But is the > SteamCommunity site really serving its intended purpose? I doubt it :) > > > > > > So - before you consider a mass delisting of servers that are using > whatever trickery to keep them active, consider the actual root of the > problem - NOT just the symptoms. Before doing anything crass, please > consider that we server operators and community owners need the proper tools > to make both your titles and our communities popular. > > > > > > In order for any solution to work, you must ensure that one thing > remains paramount - the symbiotic relationship between Valve and the people > who host your servers. > > > > > > I've said my piece, I won't say anything else about it :) > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
