Dear Gurcharan ji and all, This topic warrents a 'research' article. That much confusion! but its interesting! The learning is we can't completely rely on any single database, for some or the other reasons. Please read with patience:
1. E-Flora of Pakistan and Wikispecies http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fioria_vitifolia have clearly quoted Fioria vitifolia as accepted name and Hibiscus vitifolius as synonym/basionym. The Flora of China http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=115438 does not deal with Hibiscus vitifolius complex, but has a species H. yunnanensis, an another species having winged capsules (should have been Fioria yunnanensis?!) 2. GRIN database of USDA http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/genform.pl says "sorry, there are no species in GRIN matching the query string "*Fioria**" but there is at least *one accepted genus *record matching "*Fioria**". Here, if you select 2. View the GRIN generic record(s) for "*Fioria*" it leads to a Genus: Fioria Mattei (Genus number 4681) page where it says 'sometimes included in: Hibiscus L. However it also says "no species records exist for this genus in GRIN" (my question here is how the genus name is accepted, without any species in it? So, we can safely say this database yet to update the species names for Fioria). 3. Let's come to USDA Plants Profile http://www.plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch. As you said it gives two different pictures in two different names viz. Hibiscus vitifolius and Fioria vitifolia (time being lets keep the local name issue aside). I think that some of the pictures are incorrectly identified at the source level and without verification it has been included in the USDA database. These pictures are sourced (see below the picture) from Botany department image gallery Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History http://persoon.si.edu/PlantImages/. When you search for Fioria vitifolia it gives 2 pictures which are correct. *But when you search for Hibiscus vitifolius, it provides 7 pictures, but i was shocked to find that they actually belong to 4 different species. Of these, the first one is, i think, Hibiscus cannabinus, the 3rd and 4th pictures are Bauhinia tomentosa (?), 2nd and 6th are Fioria vitifolia and 5th and 7th pictures could be some Decaschistia species. * Thank you all for the opportunity. Sorry for the long mail. On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:06 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Gurcharan ji, > As far i have seen different renowned plant database is treating this > particular plant in differnt manner as far as the specific epithet is > concerned. hence the complete matter is very confusing and clueless to me.. > Regards > Tanay > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Dear friends >> It is fine to assume (and that we have been doing) that they are >> synonymous, but what about USDA and ITIS databases, the former gives two >> different local names and photographs of two different plants for them? Do >> we totally ignore them?, or there is some thing to it. >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> Retired Associate Professor >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:58 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> OHH SOORY THANKS TO SATISH jI TOOO >>> TANAY >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:58 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> THANK YOU THIS REALY MAKE ME FEEL THAT MY SPECULATION WAS CORRECT ..... >>>> THANKS VIJAYASANKAR JI . >>>> TANAY >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Hemanth >>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you sir. >>>>> >>>>> That gives me some clear picture… >>>>> >>>>> I was waiting for your reply. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Hemant G. Tripathi >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Gurcharan Singh [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:58 PM >>>>> *To:* tanay bose >>>>> *Cc:* rashida atthar; [email protected]; >>>>> [email protected]; [email protected]; >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [efloraofindia:32760] Re: Malvaceae for id 170410MK1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you look plants depicted at USDA Database the plant of Hibiscus >>>>> vitifolius has much deeper and narrower lobes of leaf, whereas those of >>>>> Fioria vitifolia much shallower and broader. If the two are distinct, then >>>>> our plant fits more with Fioria vitifolia. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:50 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear Gurcharan ji, >>>>> >>>>> this is really confusing to the extreme level I am getting clueless >>>>> .... If you get any more information please help me. >>>>> >>>>> regards >>>>> >>>>> tanay >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:41 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Tanay >>>>> >>>>> Although it appears that the three are synonyms, things are not very >>>>> clear. Unfortunately Almeida & Patil, while giving this combination in >>>>> JBNHS >>>>> 93(1): 111, 1996, failed to give basionym, and as such the combination >>>>> can't >>>>> be considered as legitimate according to ICBN rules. The choice is between >>>>> the other two Hibiscus vitifolius and Fioria vitifolia, although when >>>>> recognising Fioria as a distinct genus Mattei again failed to give type of >>>>> the genus, essential under the rules. It is not a simple priority issue, >>>>> but >>>>> a taxonomic decision whether you want to accept a broadly circumscribed >>>>> Hibiscus, or leave it as paraphyletic and create smaller genera like >>>>> Fiori. >>>>> APG now advocates monophyletic taxa and as has been done by the abolition >>>>> of >>>>> monocots as distinct group in all recent phylogenetic classifications. In >>>>> such cases it is safer to follow what has been done in the recent years. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If look at Fioria vitifolia, it has been recognised by eFlora of >>>>> Pakistan (1979), USA (based on Loigier, H.A. 1994. *Descriptive Flora >>>>> of Puerto Rico and Adjacent Islands. Spermatophyta. Vols. 1-5*. >>>>> Editorial de la Universidad de Puerto Rico.), FloraBase: Western Australia >>>>> (1996), Sivarajan & Pradeep (Malvaceae of Southern Penninsular India, >>>>> 1996), >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Those who include Fioria under Hibiscus include Eflora of China (1994), >>>>> GRIN (1985-verified, 2000 updated, ssp. lukei, 2003), African Plant >>>>> Database >>>>> (updated 10-4-2010), ARS Database (1985, 2000) and several others. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> BUT THEN THERE IS A BIG CATCH. BOTH USDA DATABASE AND ITIS TREAT THEM >>>>> AS DISTINCT RECOGNISED TAXA, HIBISCUS VITIFOLIUS COMMONLY KNOWN AS TRPICAL >>>>> ROSE MALLOW AND PROVIDING PHOTOGRAPH FROM SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION AND >>>>> FIORIA >>>>> VITIFOLIA AS TROPICAL FANLEAF WITH ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH FROM SAME. PICK YOUR >>>>> CHOOSE AND GET MORE CONFUSED> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=FIVI2 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=HIVI >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The matter remains still unresolved for me!!!!!!!! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 5:45 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Rashida Ji, >>>>> >>>>> Dr. Almeida clearly states that *Hibiscus vitifolius* is a synonym of >>>>> *Kosteletzkya vitifolia* (Writeup1.jpg). In eflora of Pakistan it has >>>>> been stated that* **Hibiscus vitifolius* is synonym of *Fioria >>>>> vitifolia*. Then we can conclude that all this named are synonyms of >>>>> each other resceptively. I searched a lot but could not find all this >>>>> three >>>>> names together in any website or literature ,always a permutation >>>>> combination of two names can be found which is delimiting me from getting >>>>> the recent valid name of the plant. Does anyone have any information >>>>> regarding this, if yes kindly help to resolve the identification for this >>>>> particular plant. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Tanay >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:29 PM, rashida atthar < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Came across this very valuable and interesting information in Dr. >>>>> Almeida'a flora of Mah. vol I. Attaching scanned copies of description >>>>> with >>>>> Dr. Almeida's explanations and a line drawing of K.vitifolia. Hope this >>>>> helps in resolving the ID and enhances the understanding of the >>>>> nomenclature >>>>> of this species. >>>>> >>>>> regards, >>>>> Rashida. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 22:26:42 +0530 >>>>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:32691] Re: Malvaceae for id 170410MK1 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> I will wait for other senior collegues to respond Dinesh ji .... I >>>>> really need to know the valid name of this plant quit interesting >>>>> investigation is going on thanks to Hemant Ji for pointing it out. >>>>> >>>>> Tanay >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Dinesh Valke <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Did notice that eflora webpage ... but did not feel satisfied with no >>>>> mention of Kosteletzkya vitifolia.... besides it classifies other names >>>>> among Lower Taxon and Related Synonym(s). >>>>> Regards. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:18 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear Dinesh ji, >>>>> >>>>> For your kind information I will like to bring it to your notice that >>>>> according to "E-Flora of Pakistan" the recent valid name is *Fioria >>>>> vitifolia* (Linn.) Mattei and *Hibiscus vitifolius* Linn. is regarded >>>>> as its synonym. Please check from the following link >>>>> >>>>> http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250071289 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Tanay >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tanay Bose >>>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]<indiantreepix%[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Invest your money wisely post Budget Sign up >>>>> now.<http://news.in.msn.com/moneyspecial/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tanay Bose >>>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]<indiantreepix%[email protected]> >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tanay Bose >>>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2820 - Release Date: >>>>> 04/19/10 12:01:00 >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tanay Bose >>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tanay Bose >>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > Tanay Bose > +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) > 9830439691(Mobile) > 9674221362 (Mobile) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<indiantreepix%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. > -- With regards R. Vijayasankar National Center for Natural Products Research, The University of Mississippi, Oxford, MS-38677, USA. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en.
