Vijayasankar ji It is not for nothing that I that designated our group as efloraofindia research forum. Keep the good work on. Let us investigate further, and till then our plant is Fioria vitifolia.
-- Dr. Gurcharan Singh Retired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:57 AM, R. Vijayasankar <[email protected]>wrote: > Dear Gurcharan ji and all, > > This topic warrents a 'research' article. That much confusion! but its > interesting! The learning is we can't completely rely on any single > database, for some or the other reasons. Please read with patience: > > 1. E-Flora of Pakistan and Wikispecies > http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fioria_vitifolia have clearly quoted > Fioria vitifolia as accepted name and Hibiscus vitifolius as > synonym/basionym. The Flora of China > http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=115438 does not > deal with Hibiscus vitifolius complex, but has a species H. yunnanensis, an > another species having winged capsules (should have been Fioria > yunnanensis?!) > > 2. GRIN database of USDA > http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/genform.pl says "sorry, there > are no species in GRIN matching the query string "*Fioria**" but there is > at least *one accepted genus *record matching "*Fioria**". Here, if you > select 2. View the GRIN generic record(s) for "*Fioria*" it leads to a > Genus: Fioria Mattei (Genus number 4681) page where it says 'sometimes > included in: Hibiscus L. However it also says "no species records exist for > this genus in GRIN" (my question here is how the genus name is accepted, > without any species in it? So, we can safely say this database yet to update > the species names for Fioria). > > 3. Let's come to USDA Plants Profile > http://www.plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch. As you said it gives two > different pictures in two different names viz. Hibiscus vitifolius and > Fioria vitifolia (time being lets keep the local name issue aside). I think > that some of the pictures are incorrectly identified at the source level and > without verification it has been included in the USDA database. These > pictures are sourced (see below the picture) from Botany department image > gallery Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History > http://persoon.si.edu/PlantImages/. When you search for Fioria vitifolia > it gives 2 pictures which are correct. *But when you search for Hibiscus > vitifolius, it provides 7 pictures, but i was shocked to find that they > actually belong to 4 different species. Of these, the first one is, i think, > Hibiscus cannabinus, the 3rd and 4th pictures are Bauhinia tomentosa (?), > 2nd and 6th are Fioria vitifolia and 5th and 7th pictures could be some > Decaschistia species. * > > Thank you all for the opportunity. > > Sorry for the long mail. > > > On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:06 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Dear Gurcharan ji, >> As far i have seen different renowned plant database is treating this >> particular plant in differnt manner as far as the specific epithet is >> concerned. hence the complete matter is very confusing and clueless to me.. >> Regards >> Tanay >> >> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Dear friends >>> It is fine to assume (and that we have been doing) that they are >>> synonymous, but what about USDA and ITIS databases, the former gives two >>> different local names and photographs of two different plants for them? Do >>> we totally ignore them?, or there is some thing to it. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>> Retired Associate Professor >>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:58 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> OHH SOORY THANKS TO SATISH jI TOOO >>>> TANAY >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:58 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> THANK YOU THIS REALY MAKE ME FEEL THAT MY SPECULATION WAS CORRECT ..... >>>>> THANKS VIJAYASANKAR JI . >>>>> TANAY >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Hemanth >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you sir. >>>>>> >>>>>> That gives me some clear picture… >>>>>> >>>>>> I was waiting for your reply. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Hemant G. Tripathi >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Gurcharan Singh [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:58 PM >>>>>> *To:* tanay bose >>>>>> *Cc:* rashida atthar; [email protected]; >>>>>> [email protected]; [email protected]; >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [efloraofindia:32760] Re: Malvaceae for id 170410MK1 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you look plants depicted at USDA Database the plant of Hibiscus >>>>>> vitifolius has much deeper and narrower lobes of leaf, whereas those of >>>>>> Fioria vitifolia much shallower and broader. If the two are distinct, >>>>>> then >>>>>> our plant fits more with Fioria vitifolia. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:50 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Gurcharan ji, >>>>>> >>>>>> this is really confusing to the extreme level I am getting clueless >>>>>> .... If you get any more information please help me. >>>>>> >>>>>> regards >>>>>> >>>>>> tanay >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:41 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Tanay >>>>>> >>>>>> Although it appears that the three are synonyms, things are not very >>>>>> clear. Unfortunately Almeida & Patil, while giving this combination in >>>>>> JBNHS >>>>>> 93(1): 111, 1996, failed to give basionym, and as such the combination >>>>>> can't >>>>>> be considered as legitimate according to ICBN rules. The choice is >>>>>> between >>>>>> the other two Hibiscus vitifolius and Fioria vitifolia, although when >>>>>> recognising Fioria as a distinct genus Mattei again failed to give type >>>>>> of >>>>>> the genus, essential under the rules. It is not a simple priority issue, >>>>>> but >>>>>> a taxonomic decision whether you want to accept a broadly circumscribed >>>>>> Hibiscus, or leave it as paraphyletic and create smaller genera like >>>>>> Fiori. >>>>>> APG now advocates monophyletic taxa and as has been done by the >>>>>> abolition of >>>>>> monocots as distinct group in all recent phylogenetic classifications. In >>>>>> such cases it is safer to follow what has been done in the recent years. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If look at Fioria vitifolia, it has been recognised by eFlora of >>>>>> Pakistan (1979), USA (based on Loigier, H.A. 1994. *Descriptive Flora >>>>>> of Puerto Rico and Adjacent Islands. Spermatophyta. Vols. 1-5*. >>>>>> Editorial de la Universidad de Puerto Rico.), FloraBase: Western >>>>>> Australia >>>>>> (1996), Sivarajan & Pradeep (Malvaceae of Southern Penninsular India, >>>>>> 1996), >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Those who include Fioria under Hibiscus include Eflora of China >>>>>> (1994), GRIN (1985-verified, 2000 updated, ssp. lukei, 2003), African >>>>>> Plant >>>>>> Database (updated 10-4-2010), ARS Database (1985, 2000) and several >>>>>> others. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> BUT THEN THERE IS A BIG CATCH. BOTH USDA DATABASE AND ITIS TREAT THEM >>>>>> AS DISTINCT RECOGNISED TAXA, HIBISCUS VITIFOLIUS COMMONLY KNOWN AS >>>>>> TRPICAL >>>>>> ROSE MALLOW AND PROVIDING PHOTOGRAPH FROM SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION AND >>>>>> FIORIA >>>>>> VITIFOLIA AS TROPICAL FANLEAF WITH ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH FROM SAME. PICK >>>>>> YOUR >>>>>> CHOOSE AND GET MORE CONFUSED> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=FIVI2 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=HIVI >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The matter remains still unresolved for me!!!!!!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 5:45 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Rashida Ji, >>>>>> >>>>>> Dr. Almeida clearly states that *Hibiscus vitifolius* is a synonym of >>>>>> *Kosteletzkya vitifolia* (Writeup1.jpg). In eflora of Pakistan it has >>>>>> been stated that* **Hibiscus vitifolius* is synonym of *Fioria >>>>>> vitifolia*. Then we can conclude that all this named are synonyms of >>>>>> each other resceptively. I searched a lot but could not find all this >>>>>> three >>>>>> names together in any website or literature ,always a permutation >>>>>> combination of two names can be found which is delimiting me from getting >>>>>> the recent valid name of the plant. Does anyone have any information >>>>>> regarding this, if yes kindly help to resolve the identification for this >>>>>> particular plant. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Tanay >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:29 PM, rashida atthar < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Came across this very valuable and interesting information in Dr. >>>>>> Almeida'a flora of Mah. vol I. Attaching scanned copies of description >>>>>> with >>>>>> Dr. Almeida's explanations and a line drawing of K.vitifolia. Hope this >>>>>> helps in resolving the ID and enhances the understanding of the >>>>>> nomenclature >>>>>> of this species. >>>>>> >>>>>> regards, >>>>>> Rashida. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 22:26:42 +0530 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:32691] Re: Malvaceae for id 170410MK1 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> I will wait for other senior collegues to respond Dinesh ji .... I >>>>>> really need to know the valid name of this plant quit interesting >>>>>> investigation is going on thanks to Hemant Ji for pointing it out. >>>>>> >>>>>> Tanay >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Did notice that eflora webpage ... but did not feel satisfied with no >>>>>> mention of Kosteletzkya vitifolia.... besides it classifies other names >>>>>> among Lower Taxon and Related Synonym(s). >>>>>> Regards. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:18 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Dinesh ji, >>>>>> >>>>>> For your kind information I will like to bring it to your notice that >>>>>> according to "E-Flora of Pakistan" the recent valid name is *Fioria >>>>>> vitifolia* (Linn.) Mattei and *Hibiscus vitifolius* Linn. is regarded >>>>>> as its synonym. Please check from the following link >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250071289 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Regards >>>>>> >>>>>> Tanay >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tanay Bose >>>>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]<indiantreepix%[email protected]>. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>> >>>>>> Invest your money wisely post Budget Sign up >>>>>> now.<http://news.in.msn.com/moneyspecial/> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tanay Bose >>>>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]<indiantreepix%[email protected]> >>>>>> . >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tanay Bose >>>>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2820 - Release Date: >>>>>> 04/19/10 12:01:00 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tanay Bose >>>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tanay Bose >>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Tanay Bose >> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >> 9830439691(Mobile) >> 9674221362 (Mobile) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "efloraofindia" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]<indiantreepix%[email protected]> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > With regards > > R. Vijayasankar > National Center for Natural Products Research, > The University of Mississippi, > Oxford, MS-38677, USA. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en.
