Dear Gurcharan ji & Vijayasankar ji, I will look for more information regarding this plant its getting interesting day by day tanay On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote:
> Vijayasankar ji > It is not for nothing that I that designated our group as efloraofindia > research forum. Keep the good work on. Let us investigate further, and till > then our plant is Fioria vitifolia. > > > -- > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > Retired Associate Professor > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:57 AM, R. Vijayasankar < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Dear Gurcharan ji and all, >> >> This topic warrents a 'research' article. That much confusion! but its >> interesting! The learning is we can't completely rely on any single >> database, for some or the other reasons. Please read with patience: >> >> 1. E-Flora of Pakistan and Wikispecies >> http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fioria_vitifolia have clearly quoted >> Fioria vitifolia as accepted name and Hibiscus vitifolius as >> synonym/basionym. The Flora of China >> http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=115438 does >> not deal with Hibiscus vitifolius complex, but has a species H. yunnanensis, >> an another species having winged capsules (should have been Fioria >> yunnanensis?!) >> >> 2. GRIN database of USDA >> http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/genform.pl says "sorry, there >> are no species in GRIN matching the query string "*Fioria**" but there is >> at least *one accepted genus *record matching "*Fioria**". Here, if you >> select 2. View the GRIN generic record(s) for "*Fioria*" it leads to a >> Genus: Fioria Mattei (Genus number 4681) page where it says 'sometimes >> included in: Hibiscus L. However it also says "no species records exist for >> this genus in GRIN" (my question here is how the genus name is accepted, >> without any species in it? So, we can safely say this database yet to update >> the species names for Fioria). >> >> 3. Let's come to USDA Plants Profile >> http://www.plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch. As you said it gives two >> different pictures in two different names viz. Hibiscus vitifolius and >> Fioria vitifolia (time being lets keep the local name issue aside). I think >> that some of the pictures are incorrectly identified at the source level and >> without verification it has been included in the USDA database. These >> pictures are sourced (see below the picture) from Botany department image >> gallery Smithsonian National Museum of Natural History >> http://persoon.si.edu/PlantImages/. When you search for Fioria vitifolia >> it gives 2 pictures which are correct. *But when you search for Hibiscus >> vitifolius, it provides 7 pictures, but i was shocked to find that they >> actually belong to 4 different species. Of these, the first one is, i think, >> Hibiscus cannabinus, the 3rd and 4th pictures are Bauhinia tomentosa (?), >> 2nd and 6th are Fioria vitifolia and 5th and 7th pictures could be some >> Decaschistia species. * >> >> Thank you all for the opportunity. >> >> Sorry for the long mail. >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:06 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Dear Gurcharan ji, >>> As far i have seen different renowned plant database is treating this >>> particular plant in differnt manner as far as the specific epithet is >>> concerned. hence the complete matter is very confusing and clueless to me.. >>> Regards >>> Tanay >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Gurcharan Singh >>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> Dear friends >>>> It is fine to assume (and that we have been doing) that they are >>>> synonymous, but what about USDA and ITIS databases, the former gives two >>>> different local names and photographs of two different plants for them? Do >>>> we totally ignore them?, or there is some thing to it. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:58 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> OHH SOORY THANKS TO SATISH jI TOOO >>>>> TANAY >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:58 PM, tanay bose >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> THANK YOU THIS REALY MAKE ME FEEL THAT MY SPECULATION WAS CORRECT >>>>>> ..... THANKS VIJAYASANKAR JI . >>>>>> TANAY >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Hemanth <[email protected] >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you sir. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That gives me some clear picture… >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was waiting for your reply. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Hemant G. Tripathi >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Gurcharan Singh [mailto:[email protected]] >>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 20, 2010 7:58 PM >>>>>>> *To:* tanay bose >>>>>>> *Cc:* rashida atthar; [email protected]; >>>>>>> [email protected]; [email protected]; >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [efloraofindia:32760] Re: Malvaceae for id 170410MK1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you look plants depicted at USDA Database the plant of Hibiscus >>>>>>> vitifolius has much deeper and narrower lobes of leaf, whereas those of >>>>>>> Fioria vitifolia much shallower and broader. If the two are distinct, >>>>>>> then >>>>>>> our plant fits more with Fioria vitifolia. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:50 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Gurcharan ji, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> this is really confusing to the extreme level I am getting clueless >>>>>>> .... If you get any more information please help me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> tanay >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 7:41 PM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Tanay >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Although it appears that the three are synonyms, things are not very >>>>>>> clear. Unfortunately Almeida & Patil, while giving this combination in >>>>>>> JBNHS >>>>>>> 93(1): 111, 1996, failed to give basionym, and as such the combination >>>>>>> can't >>>>>>> be considered as legitimate according to ICBN rules. The choice is >>>>>>> between >>>>>>> the other two Hibiscus vitifolius and Fioria vitifolia, although when >>>>>>> recognising Fioria as a distinct genus Mattei again failed to give type >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the genus, essential under the rules. It is not a simple priority >>>>>>> issue, but >>>>>>> a taxonomic decision whether you want to accept a broadly circumscribed >>>>>>> Hibiscus, or leave it as paraphyletic and create smaller genera like >>>>>>> Fiori. >>>>>>> APG now advocates monophyletic taxa and as has been done by the >>>>>>> abolition of >>>>>>> monocots as distinct group in all recent phylogenetic classifications. >>>>>>> In >>>>>>> such cases it is safer to follow what has been done in the recent years. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If look at Fioria vitifolia, it has been recognised by eFlora of >>>>>>> Pakistan (1979), USA (based on Loigier, H.A. 1994. *Descriptive >>>>>>> Flora of Puerto Rico and Adjacent Islands. Spermatophyta. Vols. 1-5*. >>>>>>> Editorial de la Universidad de Puerto Rico.), FloraBase: Western >>>>>>> Australia >>>>>>> (1996), Sivarajan & Pradeep (Malvaceae of Southern Penninsular India, >>>>>>> 1996), >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Those who include Fioria under Hibiscus include Eflora of China >>>>>>> (1994), GRIN (1985-verified, 2000 updated, ssp. lukei, 2003), African >>>>>>> Plant >>>>>>> Database (updated 10-4-2010), ARS Database (1985, 2000) and several >>>>>>> others. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> BUT THEN THERE IS A BIG CATCH. BOTH USDA DATABASE AND ITIS TREAT THEM >>>>>>> AS DISTINCT RECOGNISED TAXA, HIBISCUS VITIFOLIUS COMMONLY KNOWN AS >>>>>>> TRPICAL >>>>>>> ROSE MALLOW AND PROVIDING PHOTOGRAPH FROM SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION AND >>>>>>> FIORIA >>>>>>> VITIFOLIA AS TROPICAL FANLEAF WITH ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH FROM SAME. PICK >>>>>>> YOUR >>>>>>> CHOOSE AND GET MORE CONFUSED> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=FIVI2 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=HIVI >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The matter remains still unresolved for me!!!!!!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 5:45 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Rashida Ji, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dr. Almeida clearly states that *Hibiscus vitifolius* is a synonym >>>>>>> of *Kosteletzkya vitifolia* (Writeup1.jpg). In eflora of Pakistan it >>>>>>> has been stated that* **Hibiscus vitifolius* is synonym of *Fioria >>>>>>> vitifolia*. Then we can conclude that all this named are synonyms of >>>>>>> each other resceptively. I searched a lot but could not find all this >>>>>>> three >>>>>>> names together in any website or literature ,always a permutation >>>>>>> combination of two names can be found which is delimiting me from >>>>>>> getting >>>>>>> the recent valid name of the plant. Does anyone have any information >>>>>>> regarding this, if yes kindly help to resolve the identification for >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> particular plant. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tanay >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 1:29 PM, rashida atthar < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Came across this very valuable and interesting information in Dr. >>>>>>> Almeida'a flora of Mah. vol I. Attaching scanned copies of description >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> Dr. Almeida's explanations and a line drawing of K.vitifolia. Hope this >>>>>>> helps in resolving the ID and enhances the understanding of the >>>>>>> nomenclature >>>>>>> of this species. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>> Rashida. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 22:26:42 +0530 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:32691] Re: Malvaceae for id 170410MK1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will wait for other senior collegues to respond Dinesh ji .... I >>>>>>> really need to know the valid name of this plant quit interesting >>>>>>> investigation is going on thanks to Hemant Ji for pointing it out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tanay >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Dinesh Valke < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Did notice that eflora webpage ... but did not feel satisfied with no >>>>>>> mention of Kosteletzkya vitifolia.... besides it classifies other names >>>>>>> among Lower Taxon and Related Synonym(s). >>>>>>> Regards. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 10:18 PM, tanay bose <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear Dinesh ji, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For your kind information I will like to bring it to your notice that >>>>>>> according to "E-Flora of Pakistan" the recent valid name is *Fioria >>>>>>> vitifolia* (Linn.) Mattei and *Hibiscus vitifolius* Linn. is >>>>>>> regarded as its synonym. Please check from the following link >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250071289 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Tanay >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Tanay Bose >>>>>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>>>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>>>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected]<indiantreepix%[email protected]>. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Invest your money wisely post Budget Sign up >>>>>>> now.<http://news.in.msn.com/moneyspecial/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Tanay Bose >>>>>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>>>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>>>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected]<indiantreepix%[email protected]> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Tanay Bose >>>>>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>>>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>>>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>> Version: 9.0.801 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2820 - Release Date: >>>>>>> 04/19/10 12:01:00 >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tanay Bose >>>>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tanay Bose >>>>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>>>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>>>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tanay Bose >>> +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) >>> 9830439691(Mobile) >>> 9674221362 (Mobile) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "efloraofindia" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]<indiantreepix%[email protected]> >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> With regards >> >> R. Vijayasankar >> National Center for Natural Products Research, >> The University of Mississippi, >> Oxford, MS-38677, USA. >> > > > > -- Tanay Bose +91(033) 25550676 (Resi) 9830439691(Mobile) 9674221362 (Mobile) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en.
