Thanks, Taffazul ji -- With regards, J. M. Garg On Fri, 27 Jan, 2023, 10:46 pm [email protected], <[email protected]> wrote:
> For the information of any members who happen to visit this page I would > like to mention that I have named this plant as *Apononea bagathii *Syed > and have reposted it as the the thread "A Novel Member Of The Boraginaceae > Family From The Kashmir Valley". The link for this thread is given below: > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/5fd92323-8706-4bf0-a564-b177bb1e9436n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > With regards > Taffazull > On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 6:11:35 AM UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote: > >> Thanks, Taffazull ji. >> >> -- >> With regards, >> J. M. Garg >> On Thu, 12 Jan, 2023, 5:28 pm [email protected], <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Sorry it should be nutlet morphology not seed morphology. >>> I think I myself get confused by the term stone seed . >>> Regards >>> Taffazull >>> >>> On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 5:14:59 PM UTC+5:30 [email protected] >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Am posting a sketch of a typical seed of the plant. The tubercles >>>> present on and between the ridges are I think gland like structures that >>>> contain secretions. In seed morphology it greatly resembles the genus* >>>> Nonea *although its calyx is polysepalous while calyx of the members >>>> of the genus *Nonea *is invariably gamosepalous . It would be fitting >>>> to call it *Apononea * (apo=other ). As posting these details under >>>> Stone flower is misleading I would be reposting all details in another >>>> thread to avoid confusion. >>>> Regards >>>> Taffazull >>>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:22:17 PM UTC+5:30 [email protected] >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sorry it should be GBIF. >>>>> Sorry for the typo >>>>> Hurry makes bad curry! >>>>> Regards >>>>> Taffazull >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:01:43 PM UTC+5:30 [email protected] >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear Garg Ji >>>>>> The fruits are cut out from the same GBIF specimen to which you are >>>>>> referring !. This is the only online image available to my knowledge and >>>>>> the collector is Kazimi. It is with the Smithsonian Institution and they >>>>>> have very kindly put it with a no copyright licence which allows cutting >>>>>> and pasting a particular part of the image.I cut out the branch on the >>>>>> extreme right hand side and attached the photo to focus on the fruits >>>>>> which >>>>>> are enclosed by the enlarged sepals that are gamosepalous with small >>>>>> lobes. >>>>>> If you look at the GIBF specimen details you will find that it is >>>>>> written >>>>>> "Publisher: National Museum Of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution >>>>>> and >>>>>> "Record Licence..creativeco...cdomain/zero/1.0/ which if you follow the >>>>>> link is No Copyright licence. I think this clarifies everything. My photo >>>>>> is the extreme right side branch bearing fruits of the same GIBF specimen >>>>>> to which you are referring. >>>>>> With sincere regards and thanks for your incisive comments which have >>>>>> helped to crystallize our problem >>>>>> Taffazull >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:16:51 PM UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Somehow, I am not convinced as per GBIF >>>>>>> <https://www.gbif.org/species/4060686> specimen >>>>>>> <https://www.gbif.org/tools/zoom/simple.html?src=//api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/http%3A%2F%2Fn2t.net%2Fark%3A%2F65665%2Fm3b27b4d50-d6d1-4881-a253-bdc4ff155a55> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 12:13, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ok, Taffazul ji >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>> J. M. Garg >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 8 Jan, 2023, 1:20 pm [email protected], < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A photo of a herbarium specimen of *N.edgeworthii *A.DC. is >>>>>>>>> available at gbif.org under creative commons (No Copyright) >>>>>>>>> licence. This specimen has fruits a photo of which is attached >>>>>>>>> below.(Attribution : "02910584.tif" - Nonea edgeworthii A.DC. >>>>>>>>> collected in >>>>>>>>> Pakistan. (licensed under >>>>>>>>> http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/). >>>>>>>>> <https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/2235964880> (see Photo2) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The fruits in which the calyx is enlarged clearly show a calyx in >>>>>>>>> which the lobes are joined and individual lobes can only be seen in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> upper part(See photo2). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is in accord with Kazmi's assertion for Genus *Nonea "Calyx >>>>>>>>> 5-fid , shortly or for ½ of its length, never divided to the base, >>>>>>>>> enlarged >>>>>>>>> in fruit.."* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is as different from the calyx in the fruits of my herb as >>>>>>>>> chalk from cheese. In the calyx of my herb the lobes are divided to >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> base.(See photo 1). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Comparision with the herbarium specimen of *N.edgeworthii * A.DC. >>>>>>>>> puts all doubts to rest and conclusively establishes that my herb: >>>>>>>>> 1. Is not *N.edgeworthii * A.DC. >>>>>>>>> 2'. It does not belong to genus *Nonea* as the calyx lobes are >>>>>>>>> divided to the base. However based on morphology of seeds and flowers >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> is closely related to *Nonea Medicus .* >>>>>>>>> It can be confidently asserted that it is a novel member of the >>>>>>>>> Boraginaceae family of which this is the first report from the Kashmir >>>>>>>>> Valley. >>>>>>>>> With regards >>>>>>>>> Taffazull >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 4:00:54 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Mahadeswara ji , >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for appreciation >>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>> Taffazull >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 9:30:17 AM UTC+5:30 Mahadeswara >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Great Garg ji ! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 3:42:47 PM UTC+5:30 JM Garg >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Taffazull ji, for great details and analysis. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> J. M. Garg >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 5 Jan, 2023, 3:19 pm [email protected], < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry clicked the post button inadvertently >>>>>>>>>>>>> Prolate pollen is rather unusual in Nonea sp for in a study of >>>>>>>>>>>>> 8 *Nonea *species only one had prolate pollen grains rest had >>>>>>>>>>>>> subprolate (spherical with pointed ends)(See attached table). >>>>>>>>>>>>> Though >>>>>>>>>>>>> microscopic appearance of pollen grains is not diagnostic it can >>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly >>>>>>>>>>>>> rule out a candidate if the morphology is different >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 3:01:57 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *POLLEN* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am posting photos of pollen grains which I got by teasing the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> anthers on a glass slide with a pin. I managed to take the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> photos with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cheap "Students Microscope" to which I have added an oil >>>>>>>>>>>>>> immersion lens >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and my entry level digital camera (Sony DSC-W830). I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>> photos of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> pollen grains are a first for eflora >>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I have never seen them before. The pollen grains are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> prolate(cigar shaped) with a single longitudinal furrow (sulcus) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> running >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from pole to pole (monosulcate.) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 2:46:33 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Photo of Anthers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 2:44:55 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Anthers* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 stamens inserted in the corolla tube just below the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat (Three are visible in the photo). The stalk by which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached(filament) is very short. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peering from above one can see the anthers only in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intact flower. In this feature it resembles *Nonea. *They >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are brownish yellow (see photo) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 2:30:27 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Garg ji, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the comment about FOP. Unfortunately their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sketch does not show calyx. In fact they must have followed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kazimi the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> towering authority there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need expert opinion on this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here are more details about corolla >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Corolla:* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Corolla is very delicately attached to the flower and in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two of them fell down as I was examining the calyx. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The corolla is approximately infundibuliform (like an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inverted bell).The lobes are very small about 1-1.5 mm as is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the photo' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The tube has a slight sinuous bend at the bottom (See >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> photo). As I will show in a subsequent post the style is very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> short and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> must remain in the bend. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I speculate that this would be to avoid self pollination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as the anthers are just below the throat. Indulging in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> further speculation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one can surmise that the peculiar shape of the corolla >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suggests that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pollinator might be a moth or butterfly with a long proboscis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> descend to the bottom of the tube. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Taffazull >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 11:58:53 AM UTC+5:30 JM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Garg wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Taffazul ji. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But Flora of Pakistan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250084488> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> says about *Nonea edgeworthii* A. DC. in DC. as 'Calyx >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6-7 mm long, up to 10 mm in fruit, dense hairy; lobes linear' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 at 17:43, [email protected] < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *A Surprising fact about the calyx* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the calyx Kazmi in his authoritative work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writes under the heading *Nonea Medicus ,Philos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Bot.1:31.1789.:* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Calyx 5-fid , shortly or for ½ of its length, never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> divided to the base, enlarged in fruit.." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (SMA Kazimi : A Revision Of The Boraginaceae of West >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pakistan And Kashmir(1971), Journal of Arnold >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arboretum,pp670-71.). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had fortunately two flowers left in the plant I had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transferred to the planter. I reexamined the calyx and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found it is divided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the base. This is also evident in the fruit. (See >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> photos).It thus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to me that it is either a sub genus or something >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. Would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> request the opinion of experts. Many features resemble the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genus *Nonea >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *including position of anthers, gynobasic very short >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> style morphology and attachment of nutlet which I will put >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a subsequent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/68365947-d8b4-4d1b-a45a-166a263eb8ccn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/68365947-d8b4-4d1b-a45a-166a263eb8ccn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/ce955ce5-c503-42d2-ae6e-7344e51ab3ebn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/ce955ce5-c503-42d2-ae6e-7344e51ab3ebn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/d7cf89f7-8733-4f84-9941-ecbcf505bef6n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/d7cf89f7-8733-4f84-9941-ecbcf505bef6n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/a7ae5e21-7a19-423e-af9f-9f355f864e8bn%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/a7ae5e21-7a19-423e-af9f-9f355f864e8bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "eFloraofIndia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/8132c4da-81cb-4757-b121-66f1bef73f80n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/8132c4da-81cb-4757-b121-66f1bef73f80n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. 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