Somehow, I am not convinced as per GBIF <https://www.gbif.org/species/4060686> specimen <https://www.gbif.org/tools/zoom/simple.html?src=//api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/http%3A%2F%2Fn2t.net%2Fark%3A%2F65665%2Fm3b27b4d50-d6d1-4881-a253-bdc4ff155a55>
On Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 12:13, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > Ok, Taffazul ji > -- > With regards, > J. M. Garg > > On Sun, 8 Jan, 2023, 1:20 pm [email protected], <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> A photo of a herbarium specimen of *N.edgeworthii *A.DC. is available at >> gbif.org under creative commons (No Copyright) licence. This specimen >> has fruits a photo of which is attached below.(Attribution : "02910584.tif" >> - Nonea edgeworthii A.DC. collected in Pakistan. (licensed under >> http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/). >> <https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/2235964880> (see Photo2) >> >> The fruits in which the calyx is enlarged clearly show a calyx in which >> the lobes are joined and individual lobes can only be seen in the upper >> part(See photo2). >> >> This is in accord with Kazmi's assertion for Genus *Nonea "Calyx 5-fid >> , shortly or for ½ of its length, never divided to the base, enlarged in >> fruit.."* >> >> This is as different from the calyx in the fruits of my herb as chalk >> from cheese. In the calyx of my herb the lobes are divided to the base.(See >> photo 1). >> >> Comparision with the herbarium specimen of *N.edgeworthii * A.DC. puts >> all doubts to rest and conclusively establishes that my herb: >> 1. Is not *N.edgeworthii * A.DC. >> 2'. It does not belong to genus *Nonea* as the calyx lobes are divided >> to the base. However based on morphology of seeds and flowers it is >> closely related to *Nonea Medicus .* >> It can be confidently asserted that it is a novel member of the >> Boraginaceae family of which this is the first report from the Kashmir >> Valley. >> With regards >> Taffazull >> >> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 4:00:54 PM UTC+5:30 [email protected] >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Mahadeswara ji , >>> Thanks for appreciation >>> Regards >>> Taffazull >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 9:30:17 AM UTC+5:30 Mahadeswara wrote: >>> >>>> Great Garg ji ! >>>> >>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 3:42:47 PM UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks, Taffazull ji, for great details and analysis. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J. M. Garg >>>>> On Thu, 5 Jan, 2023, 3:19 pm [email protected], <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sorry clicked the post button inadvertently >>>>>> Prolate pollen is rather unusual in Nonea sp for in a study of 8 *Nonea >>>>>> *species only one had prolate pollen grains rest had subprolate >>>>>> (spherical with pointed ends)(See attached table). Though microscopic >>>>>> appearance of pollen grains is not diagnostic it can certainly rule out a >>>>>> candidate if the morphology is different >>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 3:01:57 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> *POLLEN* >>>>>>> Am posting photos of pollen grains which I got by teasing the >>>>>>> anthers on a glass slide with a pin. I managed to take the photos with a >>>>>>> cheap "Students Microscope" to which I have added an oil immersion lens >>>>>>> and my entry level digital camera (Sony DSC-W830). I think photos of >>>>>>> pollen grains are a first for eflora >>>>>>> as I have never seen them before. The pollen grains are >>>>>>> prolate(cigar shaped) with a single longitudinal furrow (sulcus) running >>>>>>> from pole to pole (monosulcate.) >>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 2:46:33 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Photo of Anthers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 2:44:55 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Anthers* >>>>>>>>> 5 stamens inserted in the corolla tube just below the throat >>>>>>>>> (Three are visible in the photo). The stalk by which they are >>>>>>>>> attached(filament) is very short. >>>>>>>>> Peering from above one can see the anthers only in the intact >>>>>>>>> flower. In this feature it resembles *Nonea. *They are brownish >>>>>>>>> yellow (see photo) >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 2:30:27 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear Garg ji, >>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the comment about FOP. Unfortunately their sketch does >>>>>>>>>> not show calyx. In fact they must have followed Kazimi the most >>>>>>>>>> towering >>>>>>>>>> authority there. >>>>>>>>>> Need expert opinion on this >>>>>>>>>> Here are more details about corolla >>>>>>>>>> *Corolla:* >>>>>>>>>> Corolla is very delicately attached to the flower and in two of >>>>>>>>>> them fell down as I was examining the calyx. >>>>>>>>>> The corolla is approximately infundibuliform (like an inverted >>>>>>>>>> bell).The lobes are very small about 1-1.5 mm as is visible from the >>>>>>>>>> photo' >>>>>>>>>> The tube has a slight sinuous bend at the bottom (See photo). As >>>>>>>>>> I will show in a subsequent post the style is very short and must >>>>>>>>>> remain in >>>>>>>>>> the bend. >>>>>>>>>> I speculate that this would be to avoid self pollination as the >>>>>>>>>> anthers are just below the throat. Indulging in further speculation >>>>>>>>>> one can >>>>>>>>>> surmise that the peculiar shape of the corolla suggests that the >>>>>>>>>> pollinator >>>>>>>>>> might be a moth or butterfly with a long proboscis which can descend >>>>>>>>>> to the >>>>>>>>>> bottom of the tube. >>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>> Taffazull >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 11:58:53 AM UTC+5:30 JM Garg >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Taffazul ji. >>>>>>>>>>> But Flora of Pakistan >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250084488> >>>>>>>>>>> says about *Nonea edgeworthii* A. DC. in DC. as 'Calyx 6-7 mm >>>>>>>>>>> long, up to 10 mm in fruit, dense hairy; lobes linear' >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 at 17:43, [email protected] < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *A Surprising fact about the calyx* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the calyx Kazmi in his authoritative work writes >>>>>>>>>>>> under the heading *Nonea Medicus ,Philos .Bot.1:31.1789.:* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "Calyx 5-fid , shortly or for ½ of its length, never divided to >>>>>>>>>>>> the base, enlarged in fruit.." >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> (SMA Kazimi : A Revision Of The Boraginaceae of West Pakistan >>>>>>>>>>>> And Kashmir(1971), Journal of Arnold Arboretum,pp670-71.). >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I had fortunately two flowers left in the plant I had >>>>>>>>>>>> transferred to the planter. I reexamined the calyx and found it >>>>>>>>>>>> is divided >>>>>>>>>>>> to the base. This is also evident in the fruit. (See photos).It >>>>>>>>>>>> thus >>>>>>>>>>>> seems to me that it is either a sub genus or something different. >>>>>>>>>>>> Would >>>>>>>>>>>> request the opinion of experts. Many features resemble the genus >>>>>>>>>>>> *Nonea >>>>>>>>>>>> *including position of anthers, gynobasic very short style >>>>>>>>>>>> morphology and attachment of nutlet which I will put in a >>>>>>>>>>>> subsequent post. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/68365947-d8b4-4d1b-a45a-166a263eb8ccn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/68365947-d8b4-4d1b-a45a-166a263eb8ccn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/ce955ce5-c503-42d2-ae6e-7344e51ab3ebn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/ce955ce5-c503-42d2-ae6e-7344e51ab3ebn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "eFloraofIndia" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/d7cf89f7-8733-4f84-9941-ecbcf505bef6n%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/d7cf89f7-8733-4f84-9941-ecbcf505bef6n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- With regards, J.M.Garg -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CA%2BiuSFC2XF_44QpVK%2B%2BjfsY7WjQpEs%2ByHHhkP46r0yUtChUbNQ%40mail.gmail.com.
