For the information of any members who happen to visit this page I would like to mention that I have named this plant as *Apononea bagathii *Syed and have reposted it as the the thread "A Novel Member Of The Boraginaceae Family From The Kashmir Valley". The link for this thread is given below: https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/5fd92323-8706-4bf0-a564-b177bb1e9436n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer With regards Taffazull On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 6:11:35 AM UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote:
> Thanks, Taffazull ji. > > -- > With regards, > J. M. Garg > On Thu, 12 Jan, 2023, 5:28 pm [email protected], <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Sorry it should be nutlet morphology not seed morphology. >> I think I myself get confused by the term stone seed . >> Regards >> Taffazull >> >> On Thursday, January 12, 2023 at 5:14:59 PM UTC+5:30 [email protected] >> wrote: >> >>> Am posting a sketch of a typical seed of the plant. The tubercles >>> present on and between the ridges are I think gland like structures that >>> contain secretions. In seed morphology it greatly resembles the genus* >>> Nonea *although its calyx is polysepalous while calyx of the members >>> of the genus *Nonea *is invariably gamosepalous . It would be fitting >>> to call it *Apononea * (apo=other ). As posting these details under >>> Stone flower is misleading I would be reposting all details in another >>> thread to avoid confusion. >>> Regards >>> Taffazull >>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:22:17 PM UTC+5:30 [email protected] >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry it should be GBIF. >>>> Sorry for the typo >>>> Hurry makes bad curry! >>>> Regards >>>> Taffazull >>>> >>>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:01:43 PM UTC+5:30 [email protected] >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear Garg Ji >>>>> The fruits are cut out from the same GBIF specimen to which you are >>>>> referring !. This is the only online image available to my knowledge and >>>>> the collector is Kazimi. It is with the Smithsonian Institution and they >>>>> have very kindly put it with a no copyright licence which allows cutting >>>>> and pasting a particular part of the image.I cut out the branch on the >>>>> extreme right hand side and attached the photo to focus on the fruits >>>>> which >>>>> are enclosed by the enlarged sepals that are gamosepalous with small >>>>> lobes. >>>>> If you look at the GIBF specimen details you will find that it is >>>>> written >>>>> "Publisher: National Museum Of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution >>>>> and >>>>> "Record Licence..creativeco...cdomain/zero/1.0/ which if you follow the >>>>> link is No Copyright licence. I think this clarifies everything. My photo >>>>> is the extreme right side branch bearing fruits of the same GIBF specimen >>>>> to which you are referring. >>>>> With sincere regards and thanks for your incisive comments which have >>>>> helped to crystallize our problem >>>>> Taffazull >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:16:51 PM UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Somehow, I am not convinced as per GBIF >>>>>> <https://www.gbif.org/species/4060686> specimen >>>>>> <https://www.gbif.org/tools/zoom/simple.html?src=//api.gbif.org/v1/image/unsafe/http%3A%2F%2Fn2t.net%2Fark%3A%2F65665%2Fm3b27b4d50-d6d1-4881-a253-bdc4ff155a55> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 12:13, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ok, Taffazul ji >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>> J. M. Garg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, 8 Jan, 2023, 1:20 pm [email protected], <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A photo of a herbarium specimen of *N.edgeworthii *A.DC. is >>>>>>>> available at gbif.org under creative commons (No Copyright) >>>>>>>> licence. This specimen has fruits a photo of which is attached >>>>>>>> below.(Attribution : "02910584.tif" - Nonea edgeworthii A.DC. >>>>>>>> collected in >>>>>>>> Pakistan. (licensed under >>>>>>>> http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/). >>>>>>>> <https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/2235964880> (see Photo2) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The fruits in which the calyx is enlarged clearly show a calyx in >>>>>>>> which the lobes are joined and individual lobes can only be seen in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> upper part(See photo2). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is in accord with Kazmi's assertion for Genus *Nonea "Calyx >>>>>>>> 5-fid , shortly or for ½ of its length, never divided to the base, >>>>>>>> enlarged >>>>>>>> in fruit.."* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is as different from the calyx in the fruits of my herb as >>>>>>>> chalk from cheese. In the calyx of my herb the lobes are divided to >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> base.(See photo 1). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Comparision with the herbarium specimen of *N.edgeworthii * A.DC. >>>>>>>> puts all doubts to rest and conclusively establishes that my herb: >>>>>>>> 1. Is not *N.edgeworthii * A.DC. >>>>>>>> 2'. It does not belong to genus *Nonea* as the calyx lobes are >>>>>>>> divided to the base. However based on morphology of seeds and flowers >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> is closely related to *Nonea Medicus .* >>>>>>>> It can be confidently asserted that it is a novel member of the >>>>>>>> Boraginaceae family of which this is the first report from the Kashmir >>>>>>>> Valley. >>>>>>>> With regards >>>>>>>> Taffazull >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 4:00:54 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Mahadeswara ji , >>>>>>>>> Thanks for appreciation >>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>> Taffazull >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 9:30:17 AM UTC+5:30 Mahadeswara >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Great Garg ji ! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 3:42:47 PM UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Taffazull ji, for great details and analysis. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>>> J. M. Garg >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 5 Jan, 2023, 3:19 pm [email protected], < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry clicked the post button inadvertently >>>>>>>>>>>> Prolate pollen is rather unusual in Nonea sp for in a study of >>>>>>>>>>>> 8 *Nonea *species only one had prolate pollen grains rest had >>>>>>>>>>>> subprolate (spherical with pointed ends)(See attached table). >>>>>>>>>>>> Though >>>>>>>>>>>> microscopic appearance of pollen grains is not diagnostic it can >>>>>>>>>>>> certainly >>>>>>>>>>>> rule out a candidate if the morphology is different >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 3:01:57 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *POLLEN* >>>>>>>>>>>>> Am posting photos of pollen grains which I got by teasing the >>>>>>>>>>>>> anthers on a glass slide with a pin. I managed to take the photos >>>>>>>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>>>>> cheap "Students Microscope" to which I have added an oil >>>>>>>>>>>>> immersion lens >>>>>>>>>>>>> and my entry level digital camera (Sony DSC-W830). I think >>>>>>>>>>>>> photos of >>>>>>>>>>>>> pollen grains are a first for eflora >>>>>>>>>>>>> as I have never seen them before. The pollen grains are >>>>>>>>>>>>> prolate(cigar shaped) with a single longitudinal furrow (sulcus) >>>>>>>>>>>>> running >>>>>>>>>>>>> from pole to pole (monosulcate.) >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 2:46:33 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Photo of Anthers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 2:44:55 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Anthers* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 stamens inserted in the corolla tube just below the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> throat (Three are visible in the photo). The stalk by which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> attached(filament) is very short. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Peering from above one can see the anthers only in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intact flower. In this feature it resembles *Nonea. *They >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are brownish yellow (see photo) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 2:30:27 PM UTC+5:30 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dear Garg ji, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the comment about FOP. Unfortunately their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sketch does not show calyx. In fact they must have followed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kazimi the most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> towering authority there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Need expert opinion on this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here are more details about corolla >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Corolla:* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Corolla is very delicately attached to the flower and in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> two of them fell down as I was examining the calyx. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The corolla is approximately infundibuliform (like an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inverted bell).The lobes are very small about 1-1.5 mm as is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the photo' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The tube has a slight sinuous bend at the bottom (See >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> photo). As I will show in a subsequent post the style is very >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> short and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> must remain in the bend. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I speculate that this would be to avoid self pollination as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the anthers are just below the throat. Indulging in further >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speculation one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can surmise that the peculiar shape of the corolla suggests >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pollinator might be a moth or butterfly with a long proboscis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> descend to the bottom of the tube. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Taffazull >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 11:58:53 AM UTC+5:30 JM >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Garg wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Taffazul ji. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But Flora of Pakistan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250084488> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> says about *Nonea edgeworthii* A. DC. in DC. as 'Calyx >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6-7 mm long, up to 10 mm in fruit, dense hairy; lobes linear' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 at 17:43, [email protected] < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *A Surprising fact about the calyx* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the calyx Kazmi in his authoritative work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writes under the heading *Nonea Medicus ,Philos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .Bot.1:31.1789.:* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Calyx 5-fid , shortly or for ½ of its length, never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> divided to the base, enlarged in fruit.." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (SMA Kazimi : A Revision Of The Boraginaceae of West >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pakistan And Kashmir(1971), Journal of Arnold >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arboretum,pp670-71.). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had fortunately two flowers left in the plant I had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transferred to the planter. I reexamined the calyx and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found it is divided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the base. This is also evident in the fruit. (See >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> photos).It thus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to me that it is either a sub genus or something >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. Would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> request the opinion of experts. Many features resemble the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genus *Nonea >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *including position of anthers, gynobasic very short >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> style morphology and attachment of nutlet which I will put >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in a subsequent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/68365947-d8b4-4d1b-a45a-166a263eb8ccn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/68365947-d8b4-4d1b-a45a-166a263eb8ccn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/ce955ce5-c503-42d2-ae6e-7344e51ab3ebn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/ce955ce5-c503-42d2-ae6e-7344e51ab3ebn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/d7cf89f7-8733-4f84-9941-ecbcf505bef6n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/d7cf89f7-8733-4f84-9941-ecbcf505bef6n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> With regards, >>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>> >>>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "eFloraofIndia" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/a7ae5e21-7a19-423e-af9f-9f355f864e8bn%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/a7ae5e21-7a19-423e-af9f-9f355f864e8bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "eFloraofIndia" group. 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