Right - I think there is *some* oversensitivity towards everything oracle says. Think of it like an inflammed wound - when you have inflammation - small irritations become quite painful - at least until you heal.
So we need healing... when I get that feeling I need... wait what? On Nov 10, 6:12 am, Kirk <[email protected]> wrote: > Well, from my perspective, ASF is making a mistake. As you most likely don't > know, I and Dick are Java Champions which means we get to participate in > discussion with various people in Oracle. What I can say is that about a > month before JavaONE, the JC group as a whole started taking Oracle to task > for being so silent on things. Every so slowly since then the Java guys have > been allowed to engage us in conversations that are pretty much verbotten in > other parts of the company. Every time bad news has hit or bad things > happened, people in Oracle wanted to go back to the old days where PR > controls everything. I'm happy to say that the Java guys have been slowly > winning the ability to speak and have been able to get PR to realize that the > old ways are not working.. and in recent weeks, speak is what they've been > doing. Some of the conversation has been very rough. It has eaten up time > from people that are responsible for delivering 7.0, but it has been > productive. Most of the recent postings on what is happening with Java are > FUD. The announcement from QCon wasn't really all that clear and it got > reported as something that just isn't going to happen. > > However, there are still a few outstanding questions and Apache is one of > them. I don't have an answer except to say that it appears that Apache > instead of trying to work with Oracle and engage with them has decided to > threaten to throw the toys out of the pram. I would be a shame if they did > this however, the JCP would go on though it would be weaker without that > strong open voice. That said, there are some radical elements in the ASF that > seem to want to bash Oracle (Sun) for the sake of bashing them. > > My conversation with those in Apache that I know was to ask the question, has > someone broken a legal agreement to which the answer from ASF's POV is yes. > But in reality, the question is answered with OpenJDK licensing. They can > fork OpenJDK and they are clear. Yet the refuse due to some ideological > position that was encouraged by IBM (in their battle against Sun for things > they didn't like). Another point, if someone broke a legal agreement there > are legal remedies. Yet no one at ASF will stand up and say why after I don't > know how many years of whining about the problem, they haven't used any of > those legal remedies. And as much as I may or may not agree with them, the > whining is getting really really old. I won't name names but some have been > posting a lot of FUD about various things that Oracle is planning on doing. > To be fair, I don't completely know what Oracle is planning on doing with > Java but then neither do they and until just recently, their blogs about > Oracle have all been speculation and conjecture and all based on dubious > facts and in some case fiction. > > So, here are some facts, > 1) Oracle is hiring people to work on the JDK so Java is getting more > resources than it ever had > 2) They are putting everything into the OpenJDK and it will remain there > 3) Oracle is working hard to deliver 7.0 on time, something that Sun wasn't > going to be able to do. > 4) Oracle will have to deal with Sun promises that were impossible to deliver > on. > 5) Oracle is a corporate that has legal obligations which is takes seriously > which some times prevent it from speaking > 6) Oracle has a corporate culture (some what like Apple's) where all PR is > carefully managed through a PR department. They are slowly learning that this > doesn't work so well when dealing with community but they are learning. > > Pure speculation on my part. Oracle will announce in the near future that > they will pick up development of the JDK for Mac OSX. My basis for the > speculation is that Oracle doesn't want to give any opportunity for MS to > claim a better cross platform story than Java has. > > Look to Devoxx in a few days where Mark Rienhold will be speaking on a panel > about the future of Java. Stephan has put a few interesting characters on > that panel so I expect it will be fun as well as informative. > > Regards, > Kirk > > On Nov 9, 2010, at 7:10 PM, phil swenson wrote: > > > > > > > > > "The ASF will terminate its relationship with the JCP if our rights as > > implementers of Java specifications are not upheld by the JCP > > Executive Committee to the limits of the EC's ability. The lack of > > active, strong and clear enforcement of those rights implies that the > > JSPA agreements are worthless, confirming that JCP specifications are > > nothing more than proprietary documentation." > > >https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/statement_by_the_asf_board1 > > > what are the implications of this (if any)? > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "The Java Posse" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en.
