Hoi,
Including abridged has two issues.. It is English and it is not a
Wikipedia. So there must be another name for the project. The notion of
removing the abridged is not applicable. When there is sufficient traction
to have a Wikipedia in the specific language, it will be a Wikipedia and it
will be the specific language only.

I take this to James exactly because we need a solution that scales and is
NOT language depended.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On 20 December 2017 at 12:22, Gnangarra <gnanga...@wikimedia.org.au> wrote:

> Kaya
>
> *disclaimer: *In saying the below I believe nys.wikipedia.org is ready,
> and very capable to stand alone,  but I am also thinking about options
> based on Gerards suggestions and the potential for additional knowledge
> growth for communities beyond the Noongar language;
>
> what if it was nys.abridged.wikipedia
>
> It could be;
>
> *At this Wikipedia we work to write an encyclopaedia in Noongar language.
> We use Noongar language where ever possible and english when necessary.
> This Wikipedia reflects the challenges of working with primarily an oral
> language and the importance of sharing the cultural knowledge of the
> Noongar people. The broader less noongar specific knowledge topics are best
> written about on en.wikipedia.org <http://en.wikipedia.org>.*
>
>
>
> This would create a model for other  language communities to follow from
> the incubator, yet they would still be a "Wikipedia" which itself is an
> important aspect.  We could create a path way that over time could enable
> progression and drop the '' .abridged '' if the community wished to do so
> in the future.
>
>
>
> On 20 December 2017 at 18:07, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hoi,
>> We have a situation where it makes sense to provide a platform for the  
>> Noongar
>> language and culture. As you will read in the thread, Wikipedia is not the
>> platform for this because of the hostility against subjects that lack
>> "sources". The Noongar language is largely oral so much of the content will
>> be in English..
>>
>> So the question for you and the Wikimedia board is: can we provide room
>> for them probably under a different platform name?
>> Thanks,
>>      GerardM
>>
>> On 19 December 2017 at 10:26, Gnangarra <gnanga...@wikimedia.org.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Kaya
>>>
>>> I did raise my concerns about the use of english when in Berlin and was
>>> told that it was ok, I'll focus on getting more of it translated though I
>>> hope this doesnt hold the project.
>>>
>>> One of our key issues is that Noongar is an oral language and written
>>> form is the result of european records, those records have created a
>>> situation where the written language is different dependent on the language
>>> the person spoke.  We people like Salvado a Spanish Benedictine monk who's
>>> spelling used a mixture of spanish and latin depending on the sounds.  Then
>>> there are various English, Welsh and Celtic settlers along with dutch,
>>> french, and german explorers all of whom recorded it in their own
>>> orthographies...  One top of the region in which the language was spoken is
>>> larger than UK and like the UK areas had their own unique dialects despite
>>> speaking the same language.  The beauty of this that some words can have
>>> more than 25 different spellings.
>>>
>>> The Noongar community came together in the early 1990's to establish a
>>> more consistent use of spellings to enable the language to be taught in
>>> schools, currently there are about 50 schools across the WA teaching
>>> Noongar.    The simple act of translating the 762 most important messages
>>> has been a complex task of consultations with many groups, spread across
>>> the regions.   When it came to writing content we encouraged two things one
>>> was localised spelling as we do for english and recording the
>>> knowledge(Katitjin).   Knowing all of this background and having
>>> experienced many a waagnkininy about language over the last 4 years ( all
>>> early work was hosted by WMAU)   the decision was taken for inclusiveness
>>> to allow english while the community is being built as we dont want to be
>>> seen a preferencing any specific one of the 15-20 different regional groups.
>>>
>>> Because of the survival of Noongar and continual use as a language
>>> despite laws, aided by it's adoption in to South West Australian english
>>> its probably one of the most complex living languages Wikimedia Movement
>>> will ever see.
>>>
>>> The value and future benefits to the movement of allowing the move now
>>> far exceeds the cost in using a few words of english in its initial phase.
>>>  As always members are welcome to come to WA to experience firsthand a
>>> living language and culture that has been in continual use for 50,000+
>>> years.
>>>
>>> Boodar
>>> Gnangarra
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18 December 2017 at 21:43, Jon Harald Søby <jhs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Gnangarra,
>>>>
>>>> I'm quite confused, because practically all the samples I looked at
>>>> from https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wp/nys are articles *in
>>>> English*, not in Nyungar. A new language edition of Wikipedia needs to
>>>> be *in that language*, not content in another language (in this case
>>>> English) *about* that language and its culture, etc. The content as it
>>>> presently stands should either be incorporated into the English Wikipedia
>>>> (although with their stringent notability criteria I'm afraid a lot, if not
>>>> most it, would be deleted) or into a separate wiki.
>>>>
>>>> Is there something I'm missing?
>>>>
>>>> 2017-12-16 4:05 GMT+01:00 Gnangarra <gnanga...@wikimedia.org.au>:
>>>>
>>>>> Kaya Folks
>>>>>
>>>>> We have completed all the tasks asked of us in berlin and continue to
>>>>> expand the translations and the article content.  As I see it we are ready
>>>>> to go,
>>>>>
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/W
>>>>> ikipedia_Nyungar
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Gideon Digby
>>>>> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia
>>>>> M: 0434 986 852
>>>>> gnanga...@wikimedia.org.au
>>>>> http://wikimedia.org.au
>>>>>
>>>>> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation
>>>>> which supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your
>>>>> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive.
>>>>> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Langcom mailing list
>>>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> mvh
>>>> Jon Harald Søby
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gideon Digby
>>> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia
>>> M: 0434 986 852
>>> gnanga...@wikimedia.org.au
>>> http://wikimedia.org.au
>>>
>>> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation which
>>> supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your
>>> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive.
>>> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Langcom mailing list
>>> Langcom@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Gideon Digby
> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia
> M: 0434 986 852
> gnanga...@wikimedia.org.au
> http://wikimedia.org.au
>
> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation which
> supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your
> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive.
> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>*
>
>
>
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