How about, once there is enough content *in* Nyungar, it is created like a
normal Wikipedia, but with a separate namespace for the stuff that is
currently in English?

2017-12-20 13:19 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>:

> Hoi,
> Including abridged has two issues.. It is English and it is not a
> Wikipedia. So there must be another name for the project. The notion of
> removing the abridged is not applicable. When there is sufficient traction
> to have a Wikipedia in the specific language, it will be a Wikipedia and it
> will be the specific language only.
>
> I take this to James exactly because we need a solution that scales and is
> NOT language depended.
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
> On 20 December 2017 at 12:22, Gnangarra <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Kaya
>>
>> *disclaimer: *In saying the below I believe nys.wikipedia.org is ready,
>> and very capable to stand alone,  but I am also thinking about options
>> based on Gerards suggestions and the potential for additional knowledge
>> growth for communities beyond the Noongar language;
>>
>> what if it was nys.abridged.wikipedia
>>
>> It could be;
>>
>> *At this Wikipedia we work to write an encyclopaedia in Noongar language.
>> We use Noongar language where ever possible and english when necessary.
>> This Wikipedia reflects the challenges of working with primarily an oral
>> language and the importance of sharing the cultural knowledge of the
>> Noongar people. The broader less noongar specific knowledge topics are best
>> written about on en.wikipedia.org <http://en.wikipedia.org>.*
>>
>>
>>
>> This would create a model for other  language communities to follow from
>> the incubator, yet they would still be a "Wikipedia" which itself is an
>> important aspect.  We could create a path way that over time could enable
>> progression and drop the '' .abridged '' if the community wished to do so
>> in the future.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 December 2017 at 18:07, Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hoi,
>>> We have a situation where it makes sense to provide a platform for the  
>>> Noongar
>>> language and culture. As you will read in the thread, Wikipedia is not the
>>> platform for this because of the hostility against subjects that lack
>>> "sources". The Noongar language is largely oral so much of the content will
>>> be in English..
>>>
>>> So the question for you and the Wikimedia board is: can we provide room
>>> for them probably under a different platform name?
>>> Thanks,
>>>      GerardM
>>>
>>> On 19 December 2017 at 10:26, Gnangarra <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kaya
>>>>
>>>> I did raise my concerns about the use of english when in Berlin and was
>>>> told that it was ok, I'll focus on getting more of it translated though I
>>>> hope this doesnt hold the project.
>>>>
>>>> One of our key issues is that Noongar is an oral language and written
>>>> form is the result of european records, those records have created a
>>>> situation where the written language is different dependent on the language
>>>> the person spoke.  We people like Salvado a Spanish Benedictine monk who's
>>>> spelling used a mixture of spanish and latin depending on the sounds.  Then
>>>> there are various English, Welsh and Celtic settlers along with dutch,
>>>> french, and german explorers all of whom recorded it in their own
>>>> orthographies...  One top of the region in which the language was spoken is
>>>> larger than UK and like the UK areas had their own unique dialects despite
>>>> speaking the same language.  The beauty of this that some words can have
>>>> more than 25 different spellings.
>>>>
>>>> The Noongar community came together in the early 1990's to establish a
>>>> more consistent use of spellings to enable the language to be taught in
>>>> schools, currently there are about 50 schools across the WA teaching
>>>> Noongar.    The simple act of translating the 762 most important messages
>>>> has been a complex task of consultations with many groups, spread across
>>>> the regions.   When it came to writing content we encouraged two things one
>>>> was localised spelling as we do for english and recording the
>>>> knowledge(Katitjin).   Knowing all of this background and having
>>>> experienced many a waagnkininy about language over the last 4 years ( all
>>>> early work was hosted by WMAU)   the decision was taken for inclusiveness
>>>> to allow english while the community is being built as we dont want to be
>>>> seen a preferencing any specific one of the 15-20 different regional 
>>>> groups.
>>>>
>>>> Because of the survival of Noongar and continual use as a language
>>>> despite laws, aided by it's adoption in to South West Australian english
>>>> its probably one of the most complex living languages Wikimedia Movement
>>>> will ever see.
>>>>
>>>> The value and future benefits to the movement of allowing the move now
>>>> far exceeds the cost in using a few words of english in its initial phase.
>>>>  As always members are welcome to come to WA to experience firsthand a
>>>> living language and culture that has been in continual use for 50,000+
>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> Boodar
>>>> Gnangarra
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 18 December 2017 at 21:43, Jon Harald Søby <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Gnangarra,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm quite confused, because practically all the samples I looked at
>>>>> from https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wp/nys are
>>>>> articles *in English*, not in Nyungar. A new language edition of
>>>>> Wikipedia needs to be *in that language*, not content in another
>>>>> language (in this case English) *about* that language and its
>>>>> culture, etc. The content as it presently stands should either be
>>>>> incorporated into the English Wikipedia (although with their stringent
>>>>> notability criteria I'm afraid a lot, if not most it, would be deleted) or
>>>>> into a separate wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there something I'm missing?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2017-12-16 4:05 GMT+01:00 Gnangarra <[email protected]>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kaya Folks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have completed all the tasks asked of us in berlin and continue to
>>>>>> expand the translations and the article content.  As I see it we are 
>>>>>> ready
>>>>>> to go,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/W
>>>>>> ikipedia_Nyungar
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Gideon Digby
>>>>>> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia
>>>>>> M: 0434 986 852
>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>> http://wikimedia.org.au
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation
>>>>>> which supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your
>>>>>> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive.
>>>>>> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> mvh
>>>>> Jon Harald Søby
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gideon Digby
>>>> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia
>>>> M: 0434 986 852
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> http://wikimedia.org.au
>>>>
>>>> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation
>>>> which supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your
>>>> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive.
>>>> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Langcom mailing list
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>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gideon Digby
>> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia
>> M: 0434 986 852
>> [email protected]
>> http://wikimedia.org.au
>>
>> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation which
>> supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your
>> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive.
>> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>*
>>
>>
>>
>
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-- 
mvh
Jon Harald Søby
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