How about, once there is enough content *in* Nyungar, it is created like a normal Wikipedia, but with a separate namespace for the stuff that is currently in English?
2017-12-20 13:19 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>: > Hoi, > Including abridged has two issues.. It is English and it is not a > Wikipedia. So there must be another name for the project. The notion of > removing the abridged is not applicable. When there is sufficient traction > to have a Wikipedia in the specific language, it will be a Wikipedia and it > will be the specific language only. > > I take this to James exactly because we need a solution that scales and is > NOT language depended. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 20 December 2017 at 12:22, Gnangarra <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Kaya >> >> *disclaimer: *In saying the below I believe nys.wikipedia.org is ready, >> and very capable to stand alone, but I am also thinking about options >> based on Gerards suggestions and the potential for additional knowledge >> growth for communities beyond the Noongar language; >> >> what if it was nys.abridged.wikipedia >> >> It could be; >> >> *At this Wikipedia we work to write an encyclopaedia in Noongar language. >> We use Noongar language where ever possible and english when necessary. >> This Wikipedia reflects the challenges of working with primarily an oral >> language and the importance of sharing the cultural knowledge of the >> Noongar people. The broader less noongar specific knowledge topics are best >> written about on en.wikipedia.org <http://en.wikipedia.org>.* >> >> >> >> This would create a model for other language communities to follow from >> the incubator, yet they would still be a "Wikipedia" which itself is an >> important aspect. We could create a path way that over time could enable >> progression and drop the '' .abridged '' if the community wished to do so >> in the future. >> >> >> >> On 20 December 2017 at 18:07, Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hoi, >>> We have a situation where it makes sense to provide a platform for the >>> Noongar >>> language and culture. As you will read in the thread, Wikipedia is not the >>> platform for this because of the hostility against subjects that lack >>> "sources". The Noongar language is largely oral so much of the content will >>> be in English.. >>> >>> So the question for you and the Wikimedia board is: can we provide room >>> for them probably under a different platform name? >>> Thanks, >>> GerardM >>> >>> On 19 December 2017 at 10:26, Gnangarra <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Kaya >>>> >>>> I did raise my concerns about the use of english when in Berlin and was >>>> told that it was ok, I'll focus on getting more of it translated though I >>>> hope this doesnt hold the project. >>>> >>>> One of our key issues is that Noongar is an oral language and written >>>> form is the result of european records, those records have created a >>>> situation where the written language is different dependent on the language >>>> the person spoke. We people like Salvado a Spanish Benedictine monk who's >>>> spelling used a mixture of spanish and latin depending on the sounds. Then >>>> there are various English, Welsh and Celtic settlers along with dutch, >>>> french, and german explorers all of whom recorded it in their own >>>> orthographies... One top of the region in which the language was spoken is >>>> larger than UK and like the UK areas had their own unique dialects despite >>>> speaking the same language. The beauty of this that some words can have >>>> more than 25 different spellings. >>>> >>>> The Noongar community came together in the early 1990's to establish a >>>> more consistent use of spellings to enable the language to be taught in >>>> schools, currently there are about 50 schools across the WA teaching >>>> Noongar. The simple act of translating the 762 most important messages >>>> has been a complex task of consultations with many groups, spread across >>>> the regions. When it came to writing content we encouraged two things one >>>> was localised spelling as we do for english and recording the >>>> knowledge(Katitjin). Knowing all of this background and having >>>> experienced many a waagnkininy about language over the last 4 years ( all >>>> early work was hosted by WMAU) the decision was taken for inclusiveness >>>> to allow english while the community is being built as we dont want to be >>>> seen a preferencing any specific one of the 15-20 different regional >>>> groups. >>>> >>>> Because of the survival of Noongar and continual use as a language >>>> despite laws, aided by it's adoption in to South West Australian english >>>> its probably one of the most complex living languages Wikimedia Movement >>>> will ever see. >>>> >>>> The value and future benefits to the movement of allowing the move now >>>> far exceeds the cost in using a few words of english in its initial phase. >>>> As always members are welcome to come to WA to experience firsthand a >>>> living language and culture that has been in continual use for 50,000+ >>>> years. >>>> >>>> Boodar >>>> Gnangarra >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 18 December 2017 at 21:43, Jon Harald Søby <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Gnangarra, >>>>> >>>>> I'm quite confused, because practically all the samples I looked at >>>>> from https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wp/nys are >>>>> articles *in English*, not in Nyungar. A new language edition of >>>>> Wikipedia needs to be *in that language*, not content in another >>>>> language (in this case English) *about* that language and its >>>>> culture, etc. The content as it presently stands should either be >>>>> incorporated into the English Wikipedia (although with their stringent >>>>> notability criteria I'm afraid a lot, if not most it, would be deleted) or >>>>> into a separate wiki. >>>>> >>>>> Is there something I'm missing? >>>>> >>>>> 2017-12-16 4:05 GMT+01:00 Gnangarra <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>>> Kaya Folks >>>>>> >>>>>> We have completed all the tasks asked of us in berlin and continue to >>>>>> expand the translations and the article content. As I see it we are >>>>>> ready >>>>>> to go, >>>>>> >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/W >>>>>> ikipedia_Nyungar >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Gideon Digby >>>>>> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia >>>>>> M: 0434 986 852 >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://wikimedia.org.au >>>>>> >>>>>> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation >>>>>> which supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your >>>>>> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive. >>>>>> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Langcom mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> mvh >>>>> Jon Harald Søby >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gideon Digby >>>> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia >>>> M: 0434 986 852 >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://wikimedia.org.au >>>> >>>> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation >>>> which supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your >>>> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive. >>>> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Langcom mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Gideon Digby >> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia >> M: 0434 986 852 >> [email protected] >> http://wikimedia.org.au >> >> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation which >> supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your >> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive. >> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>* >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Langcom mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom > > -- mvh Jon Harald Søby
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