Hoi,
That does not fit what is understood to be a Wikipedia. What are your
arguments to call this a Wikipedia? It does not work in any way linking to
Wikidata. So no. I do not think so. With a separate project we can indeed
have multiple namespaces and link them properly based on the language
associated with a namespace.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 20 December 2017 at 13:22, Jon Harald Søby <[email protected]> wrote:
> How about, once there is enough content *in* Nyungar, it is created like
> a normal Wikipedia, but with a separate namespace for the stuff that is
> currently in English?
>
> 2017-12-20 13:19 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]>:
>
>> Hoi,
>> Including abridged has two issues.. It is English and it is not a
>> Wikipedia. So there must be another name for the project. The notion of
>> removing the abridged is not applicable. When there is sufficient traction
>> to have a Wikipedia in the specific language, it will be a Wikipedia and it
>> will be the specific language only.
>>
>> I take this to James exactly because we need a solution that scales and
>> is NOT language depended.
>> Thanks,
>> GerardM
>>
>> On 20 December 2017 at 12:22, Gnangarra <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Kaya
>>>
>>> *disclaimer: *In saying the below I believe nys.wikipedia.org is ready,
>>> and very capable to stand alone, but I am also thinking about options
>>> based on Gerards suggestions and the potential for additional knowledge
>>> growth for communities beyond the Noongar language;
>>>
>>> what if it was nys.abridged.wikipedia
>>>
>>> It could be;
>>>
>>> *At this Wikipedia we work to write an encyclopaedia in Noongar
>>> language. We use Noongar language where ever possible and english when
>>> necessary. This Wikipedia reflects the challenges of working with primarily
>>> an oral language and the importance of sharing the cultural knowledge of
>>> the Noongar people. The broader less noongar specific knowledge topics are
>>> best written about on en.wikipedia.org <http://en.wikipedia.org>.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This would create a model for other language communities to follow from
>>> the incubator, yet they would still be a "Wikipedia" which itself is an
>>> important aspect. We could create a path way that over time could enable
>>> progression and drop the '' .abridged '' if the community wished to do so
>>> in the future.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20 December 2017 at 18:07, Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hoi,
>>>> We have a situation where it makes sense to provide a platform for the
>>>> Noongar language and culture. As you will read in the thread,
>>>> Wikipedia is not the platform for this because of the hostility against
>>>> subjects that lack "sources". The Noongar language is largely oral so much
>>>> of the content will be in English..
>>>>
>>>> So the question for you and the Wikimedia board is: can we provide room
>>>> for them probably under a different platform name?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> GerardM
>>>>
>>>> On 19 December 2017 at 10:26, Gnangarra <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Kaya
>>>>>
>>>>> I did raise my concerns about the use of english when in Berlin and
>>>>> was told that it was ok, I'll focus on getting more of it translated
>>>>> though
>>>>> I hope this doesnt hold the project.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of our key issues is that Noongar is an oral language and written
>>>>> form is the result of european records, those records have created a
>>>>> situation where the written language is different dependent on the
>>>>> language
>>>>> the person spoke. We people like Salvado a Spanish Benedictine monk who's
>>>>> spelling used a mixture of spanish and latin depending on the sounds.
>>>>> Then
>>>>> there are various English, Welsh and Celtic settlers along with dutch,
>>>>> french, and german explorers all of whom recorded it in their own
>>>>> orthographies... One top of the region in which the language was spoken
>>>>> is
>>>>> larger than UK and like the UK areas had their own unique dialects despite
>>>>> speaking the same language. The beauty of this that some words can have
>>>>> more than 25 different spellings.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Noongar community came together in the early 1990's to establish a
>>>>> more consistent use of spellings to enable the language to be taught in
>>>>> schools, currently there are about 50 schools across the WA teaching
>>>>> Noongar. The simple act of translating the 762 most important messages
>>>>> has been a complex task of consultations with many groups, spread across
>>>>> the regions. When it came to writing content we encouraged two things
>>>>> one
>>>>> was localised spelling as we do for english and recording the
>>>>> knowledge(Katitjin). Knowing all of this background and having
>>>>> experienced many a waagnkininy about language over the last 4 years ( all
>>>>> early work was hosted by WMAU) the decision was taken for inclusiveness
>>>>> to allow english while the community is being built as we dont want to be
>>>>> seen a preferencing any specific one of the 15-20 different regional
>>>>> groups.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because of the survival of Noongar and continual use as a language
>>>>> despite laws, aided by it's adoption in to South West Australian english
>>>>> its probably one of the most complex living languages Wikimedia Movement
>>>>> will ever see.
>>>>>
>>>>> The value and future benefits to the movement of allowing the move now
>>>>> far exceeds the cost in using a few words of english in its initial phase.
>>>>> As always members are welcome to come to WA to experience firsthand a
>>>>> living language and culture that has been in continual use for 50,000+
>>>>> years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Boodar
>>>>> Gnangarra
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 18 December 2017 at 21:43, Jon Harald Søby <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Gnangarra,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm quite confused, because practically all the samples I looked at
>>>>>> from https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wp/nys are
>>>>>> articles *in English*, not in Nyungar. A new language edition of
>>>>>> Wikipedia needs to be *in that language*, not content in another
>>>>>> language (in this case English) *about* that language and its
>>>>>> culture, etc. The content as it presently stands should either be
>>>>>> incorporated into the English Wikipedia (although with their stringent
>>>>>> notability criteria I'm afraid a lot, if not most it, would be deleted)
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> into a separate wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there something I'm missing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2017-12-16 4:05 GMT+01:00 Gnangarra <[email protected]>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kaya Folks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have completed all the tasks asked of us in berlin and continue
>>>>>>> to expand the translations and the article content. As I see it we are
>>>>>>> ready to go,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/W
>>>>>>> ikipedia_Nyungar
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Gideon Digby
>>>>>>> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia
>>>>>>> M: 0434 986 852
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>> http://wikimedia.org.au
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation
>>>>>>> which supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia.
>>>>>>> Your
>>>>>>> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive.
>>>>>>> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Langcom mailing list
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> mvh
>>>>>> Jon Harald Søby
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Gideon Digby
>>>>> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia
>>>>> M: 0434 986 852
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> http://wikimedia.org.au
>>>>>
>>>>> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation
>>>>> which supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your
>>>>> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive.
>>>>> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Langcom mailing list
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gideon Digby
>>> Vice President - Wikimedia Australia
>>> M: 0434 986 852
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://wikimedia.org.au
>>>
>>> Wikimedia Australia Inc. is an independent charitable organisation which
>>> supports the efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation in Australia. Your
>>> donations keep the Wikimedia mission alive.
>>> *http://wikimedia.org.au/Donate <https://wikimedia.org.au/Donate>*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> mvh
> Jon Harald Søby
>
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>
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