Naturally, if the language is not what it is said to be, we don't approve. My point was that the time for saying "Saraiki is effectively the same thing as Western Punjabi" has passed. So assuming the expert ends up verifying the language as Saraiki, I don't really think we can or should go back and revisit the question of whether or not this should be integrated into the Western Punjabi project. Steven
Sent from Outlook<http://aka.ms/weboutlook> ________________________________ From: Langcom <[email protected]> on behalf of Jon Harald Søby <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 3:38 PM To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia in Saraiki I am still waiting to hear back from the expert. If he says the rest of the pages look fine, then I think we can move forward – Steven makes some good points as usual. tor. 10. okt. 2019 kl. 21:03 skrev Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>: Hoi, The final stage is that we verify if the language it is said to be. When we find it is not or are not certain we have all the room to seek another authority to move forward. At this stage it becomes confusing and I am not convinced at all that we should. Thanks, GerardM On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 19:21, Steven White <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: This is effectively the same problem as we saw in the discussion of Montenegrin Wikipedia—although since all but two of us are from Europe, North America or Israel, we feel more confident making calls in a case like Montenegrin than we do here. (And, candidly, there is less chance in the Montenegrin case of being accused of racism/Euro-centrism, even if that accusation would be totally without merit in this case.) But as I said back then, the rule as currently written is fine when the language area starts with a clean slate. If there were no Western Punjabi Wikipedia now, we could reasonably try to get a single project to try to accommodate both Western Punjabi and Saraiki. (Whether that effort would be successful is a different question, but we could try.) However, I take Satdeep's comment below to indicate that there would be serious problems trying to integrate a new Saraiki-language community into a ten-year old Western Punjabi-language community, and that he recommends against it, based on the current "facts on the ground". Besides, to some extent the time to say "no" has passed, since Satdeep marked the project as "eligible" in 2017. So I think we need to move forward with this. Steven Sent from Outlook<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fweboutlook&data=02%7C01%7C%7C27b14763c84b4b786fe808d74db9839a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637063331479640783&sdata=%2Be5t%2F8MN7boQ1F1ZLIYwwDG0L5Y2w685G48TmpiTLN8%3D&reserved=0> ________________________________ From: Langcom <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Jon Harald Søby <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 4:44 AM To: Wikimedia Foundation Language Committee <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [Langcom] Wikipedia in Saraiki ... As for the Western Punjabi/Saraiki issue, I don't know enough about that to have any opinion either way. tir. 8. okt. 2019 kl. 19:00 skrev Satdeep Gill <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>: ... P.S. Western Punjabi and Saraiki are pretty similar and my personal view is that this should be accommodated on one Wikipedia but the sociology-political situation in Pakistan calls for a separate Wikipedia for Saraiki. Regards Satdeep Gill _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wikimedia.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flangcom&data=02%7C01%7C%7C27b14763c84b4b786fe808d74db9839a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637063331479640783&sdata=vRDOwHRLv%2B6qFNok%2BLJNeiRAFrzuBWGo6pRn1BO1%2B9g%3D&reserved=0> _______________________________________________ Langcom mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/langcom<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.wikimedia.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Flangcom&data=02%7C01%7C%7C27b14763c84b4b786fe808d74db9839a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637063331479650791&sdata=XOi5ymt%2Fz8fi71Oltu04freVjNcHF97HV0YlMZsR4p4%3D&reserved=0> -- mvh Jon Harald Søby
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