Although many of the founders were Christians, in most of the 13
colonies there was a state religion and a religious test or
requirement for holding an elected or appointed government office or
position. Some for example were members of the state church simply
because they had to in order to be eligible for elected office. i.e.
Jefferson was a member of the Anglican (Church of England now called
Episcopal) church not because he supported the church but because he
had to in order to be eligible to be a member of the VA House of
Burgesses and later General Assembly.
$
--- In [email protected], Geof Gibson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Below are just some quotes from our Founding Fathers. There are
many
> other quotes, some of which even question the existence of God.
> My point is it is disingenuous to just state that they didn't
believe
> in a monotheistic God.
> It is also disingenuous to state that no morality comes from the
> Christian religion, especially when you quote Christ about
separating
> government and religion.
>
> Most of the critiques of religion by the founders are specific to
> churches and organized religion when it was used as a form of
> government and to control the people. Just because men, whom are
all
> flawed, usurp religion and churches for their own end, does not
condemn
> religion and spirituality.
>
> "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great
> nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on
> religion but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We shall not fight
alone.
> God presides over the destinies of nations." - Patrick Henry
>
> "I believe in one God, Creator of the universe.... That the most
> acceptable service we can render Him is doing good to His other
> children.... As to Jesus ... I have ... some doubts as to his
divinity;
> though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never
studied
> it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I
expect
> soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble." -
Benjamin
> Franklin
>
> On Jan 1, 2006, at 2:00 PM, Paul wrote:
>
> > It seems as though in addition to needing an education on the
word
> > "defense", you also are woefully misinformed about the
founders. They
> > were indeed "secularists" and they were mainly non-
Christians. They
> > didn't believe in the judeo-christian monotheistic concept
of "god"
> > but rather they believed in a generic higher power
called "nature's
> > god" or "creator". Neither of these is a belief in the
Christian
> > "God". They used these generic terms on purpose as to include
anyone
> > you believe your "creator" to be whether it be nature, Vishnu,
Buddha,
> > God, or your parents and they wanted to let people know that our
> > rights are with us at birth (not before), and that they don't
come
> > from the government.
> >
> > The founders, (much like Jesus of Nazareth) wanted to keep
government
> > completely out of religion and all religion completely out of
> > government.
> >
> > Morality doesn't come from religion, especially the Christian
> > religion. Without any religion or any belief in god, we'd
still have
> > morality, because we'd still have natural law...which is what
our
> > government and laws are based on.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "geofgibson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Your interpretation of the First Amendment must be twisted by
your
> > atheism.
> > >
> > > The only violation of the 1st Amendment would be if someone
was
> > forced to
> > > pray. Any voluntary prayer is totally within the free
exercise of
> > religion.
> > > Even those who are compelled to attend public schools are in
no way
> > > compelled to pray.
> > >
> > >Â
> > >
> > > "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for
one
> > people to
> > > dissolve the political bands which have connected them with
another,
> > and to
> > > assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal
> > station to
> > > which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a
decent
> > respect
> > > to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare
the
> > causes
> > > which impel them to the separation."
> > >
> > > "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are
created
> > equal,
> > > that they are endowed by their Creator with certain
unalienable
> > Rights, that
> > > among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
> > >
> > >Â
> > >
> > > These both show that a) a creator, or God is the source of
natural
> > law, and
> > > that b) the Founders were not secularists.
> > >
> > > There is no morality without an authority. Try reducing your
> > natural law
> > > and secular morality down to their source and you come up
with
> > nothing.
> > > Without a creator you have nothing to create values. If
there is no
> > > spiritual power, then why does life, or even liberty have
value?Â
> > If all
> > > there is, is what we have in the material world, then there
is no
> > reason to
> > > live or strive to excel.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ForumWebSiteAt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Libertarian
> >
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > ⪠ Visit your group "Libertarian" on the web.
> > Â
> > ⪠ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Â
> > ⪠ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> >
> Geof Gibson - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> You can always send mail to soundsurgeon.tv as well
> http://soundsurgeon.tv
> http://variableproductions.com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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