Linux-Misc Digest #804, Volume #18 Fri, 29 Jan 99 02:13:11 EST
Contents:
ldd result question (Jim White)
Re: screwed up fstab (Dan Harris)
Re: How to capture interactive screen display? (Gary Momarison)
Re: Linux on PC's not ready for Enterprise (mlw)
Best version of Netscape 4.5 (Alex McCreath)
Re: Advice for Microsoft-haters (pdohert)
Re: Linux on PC's not ready for Enterprise ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Is Microsoft a nasty company ? I'm asking you this question. (Christopher Browne)
Re: PPP is driving me crazy !!!! Plese help me ("Neil D. Schafer")
Slow clock in X (Austin Godber)
Re: Unable to mount cdrom (Doug)
Re: Linux keyboard? (For emacs use) (Bob Nelson)
Re: Linux - Where To Start??? (Nick Dreyer)
Re: (Symbolic) Links (Johan Kullstam)
Re: RHLinux "Deluxe" vs 'regular' RHL 5.2 ("R.L.F.")
Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers (Christopher Browne)
Re: UNIX - Who, What, Where? (Christopher Browne)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: ldd result question
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:45:52 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I use gcc compiled a program with -lm, so it links a math lib,
the gcc manual say it's libm.a, but ldd show it's libm.so, I think
thses two lib are different. Any one can explain? TIA
--jim
------------------------------
From: Dan Harris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: screwed up fstab
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:59:47 +0000
Gary Momarison wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > I was running redhat 2.0.35 kernel with a hard drive running on a promise
> > ultra-33 card. The card wasn't supported at the time (with out a patch) so i
> > used a successful work around where a passed the correct parameters to the
> > kernal via lilo. I decided to upgrade to the 2.2.0 kernel which supports
> > this card by automatically probing for the correct paramaters. When I booted
> > the 2.2.0 kernel it detected the card but instead of detecting it as hda and
> > hdb it detected it as hde and hdf. I loaded up my old kernel and changed my
> > fstab to the newly detected hd's and forgot to change my lilo to point to the
> > hdf root point. I tried to tell lilo manually where the mount point is
> > (linux2.2 root=/dev/hdf) and was succesfull at getting to the root maintance
> > mode but when I ran vi everything was set to read-only. I am wondering how I
> > go about writing to my fstab in some way.
> >
> > Wish I had made that boot floppy....
>
> So make it now.
>
> -- Get to your read-only maintance mode.
> -- Insert floppy in fd0.
> -- cat your-kernel-file >/dev/fd0H1440
> -- rdev /dev/fd0 /dev/your-root-partition
>
> From the English Police:
> You'd cause your readers to stumble less often if you'd use
> "without", "I", and "work-around" instead of "with out", "i",
> and "work around".
>
Agreed... and thanks
The problem was that my root=/dev/hdf command was added to the wrong
kernel.
Adding the command to my 2.2.0 kernel booted. The command
rdev /boot/bzImage /dev/hdf6 followed by rdev /boot/bzImage pointed
the kernel to the correct root point.
Editing the lilo.conf and running /sbin/lilo gave me this error:
Sorry, don't know how to handle device 0x2146
lilo.conf reads as follows:
boot=/dev/hde
map=/boot/map
install=/boot/boot.b
prompt
timeout=50
image=/boot/vmlinuz
label=linux
root=/dev/hdf6
# append="ide0=0x6100, 0x6206, 10"
read-only
other=/dev/hde1
label=95
table=/dev/hde
image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.0.35-2
label=lin35
root=/dev/hdf6
# append="ide0=0x6100, 0x6206, 10"
read-only
image=/boot/bzImage
label=2.2
root=/dev/hdf6
read-only
Reverting back to the original:
boot=/dev/hda
..
..
..
other=/dev/hda1
label=95
table=/dev/hda
gives me this error:
open /dev/hda: Operation not supported by device
I am only able to boot when giving the <my-kernel> root=/dev/hdf6
command.
To make it more clear my hard drives were set as hda(win95) and
hdb(linux).
The card automatically sets the hard drives at hde and hdf now.
thanks again
Dan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Gary Momarison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How to capture interactive screen display?
Date: 25 Jan 1999 16:40:21 -0800
"Charles Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> How can one capture the console screen output from an interactive program
> under Linux? My recollection of working on a Unix platform years ago was
> that the 'tee' command was used for this, i.e.,
> myprog | tee output.sav
>
> but this doesn't work with Linux. The output appears to be buffered so
> the user prompts aren't visible.
>
> Example: Trying to capture the output of fdisk's 'print partition table'
> function to a file. Another interactive example is the 'units' program.
For the fdisk example, use cfdisk if you can. It can "print" to a file.
Some programs write to standard output and/or error output which
isn't hard to handle with "tee", etc. I just read something about
programs writing instead to the "tty".
The "screen" and "script" commands can be useful for logging on a
console. I don't if they'll work for your problem.
--
Look for Linux info at http://www.dejanews.com/home_ps.shtml and in
Gary's Encyclopedia at http://www.aa.net/~swear/pedia/index.html
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux on PC's not ready for Enterprise
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 14:42:30 +0000
Mark Ramos wrote:
> After receiving emails and seeing the threads on RAM limitations I realize
> that this is yet another hardware limitation based on the PC architecture.
> So I see Linux trying to gain acceptance in the high end market but there
> are so many limitations. To list a few:
>
> 1. Memory bandwith limitation (just found that out) due to the 32bit
> addressing of Intel cpu's.
This is incorrect. The memory bus on a pentium is 64 bit. The 32bit
addressability has nothing to do with bandwidth. There is a bandwidth issue
on PCI, because the standard PCI bus on PCI x86 machines is 32bit.
>
>
> 2. 1024 cylinder boundry in which the kernel can't sit on your disk after
> the 1024th cylinder or after the 3rd disk (I believe).
Yes this is a problem, but, I usually put the root directory on a small
partition anyway, so I've never seen it.
>
>
> 3. You can't boot without a video card (under most bioses).
Under most bioses it is an option (not installed)
>
> 4. You can't initialize the system from the serial port. I am running
> systems now from console (thanks to Linux) but it starts at the lilo
> prompt. I can't go into CMOS or see the memory count at boot up, etc. like
> it can be done on Sparc architecture, SGI, HP..... Supposedly it can be
> done with an add on board that is used in Compaq servers but c'mon this is
> a joke!
Yes, this is a problem, but, it is unclear that it is an unworkable one. I bet
lilo could be modified to write to the serial port. (Now that's a cool
project!)
>
> You may think I am just complaining but if your environment is nearly all
> Sparc architectures and you want to put a PC in because it costs so much
> less and you are trying to convince your IT manager that Linux on a PC can
> compete with the "other guys" then how do I explain that the Intel boxes
> are crippled? Yeah you can say put Linux on the Sparc's but when we
> already have Solaris why convert to Linux on those? Just because it's
> "Linux"? I don't think so. Motherboard and cpu manufacturers need to get
> their ass moving and stop waiting for Merced and fix these compatability
> issues with the current hardware.
I don't think you are complaining. Sun systems are great, there is even Linux
for them. The issue is "are these arguments show stoppers?" What are the
pros/cons of Sun boxes?
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 95, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit the Mohawk Software website: www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:18:42 +1000
From: Alex McCreath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.news,linux.redhat.misc,alt.os.linux,aus.computers.linux
Subject: Best version of Netscape 4.5
Which version of Netscape Communicator (4.5) runs best under Linux RH52.
I have a standard Pentium 120 machine with 64M memory and plenty of
drive space. Thanks in advance.
Alex McCreath
------------------------------
From: pdohert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advice for Microsoft-haters
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:13:18 -0600
Gary wrote:
> Does anyone post Linux questions anymore or is this an International
> pissing contest ?? "My countries bigger than yours" ??
This all started when several people on here made disparaging remarks
regarding the citizenry of the USA. I merely responded with a defense
against this attack. If you don't like the direction of the thread move
on...
--
Paul Doherty
Systems Analyst/Programmer
http://www.dfw.net/~pdoherty
Home of PC DiskMaster
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux on PC's not ready for Enterprise
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:12:17 GMT
> Yeah you can say put Linux on the Sparc's but when we
> already have Solaris why convert to Linux on those? Just because it's
> "Linux"? I don't think so.
Well, a *possible* advantage might be that it's free, without license
restrictions costing you hundreds of dollars per machine... although this, I
must admit, is more of an argument of Linux vs. NT or NetWare. On the upper-
end portion of the spectrum, you are indeed correct... I don't think that
Linux is quite mature enough to be giving Solaris, HP-UX, or IBM mainframes a
run for their money yet.
This is partly due to Linux not being mature enough, and partly due to the
i386 platform not being mature enough. I doubt that it ever will be... the
whole deal with the Intel platform is that it sacrifices performance in
exchange for open-system compatibility (arguably a *good* exchange, as it
allowed the platform to proliferate and avoid Macintosh-closed-system-
obscurity).
Maybe the day will come when Linux is a serious challenge to other
enterprise solutions, but it will only advance as fast as the Intel platform
does. Therefore, it today is only competing against other Intel-platform
solutions (NT and Novell)... in which realm it holds clear superiority.
To get to the point... if you're already running a Solaris-shop, why would
you be considering "upgrading" to Linux in the first place? <smile>
Steve
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Microsoft a nasty company ? I'm asking you this question.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:57:43 GMT
On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:57:22 +0000, Jason Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Jan 1999, David Taylor wrote:
>> I agree. If someone put time into developing a linux distribution
>> designed for OEMs to tune to specific hardware setups, and then was
>> preinstalled on a computer, it would be just the same as windows. Sure
>> you would have to tweak things to get them perfect, just like in windows
>
>Alerady been done. Red Hat Linux has a feature called kickstart wherein
>you create a `standard' configuration to a kickstart file on a disk. You
>use this file for the installation and the system get's built exactly to
>your standard specification
>
>See the KickStart-HOWTO with RH systems for more details.
Have they built the "reverse-engineering" bit in so that you can take a
working system, and extract a kickstart spec?
The *nice* way of making KickStart useful is if you can go and install,
tune (somewhat) to get things working, thus generating a "golden
system," and then reverse that process so as to build the spec file.
The way to make this *really* slick is to have a process that goes in
and checks *all* files on the system against the RPM database so as to
establish what files have been modified by hand, and then build a
"localization RPM spec" out of that.
Thus, you get:
a) A list of the installed RPMs. This is pretty easy to come up with:
# rpm -q -a > /tmp/rpmlist
b) To figure out what changed...
# foreach i (`cat /tmp/rpmlist`)
> rpm -i $RPMPATH/$i*.rpm
> end
... and I'm missing a parameter here; we need to force a reinstall ...
# cd /; find | grep rpmsave > /tmp/changedfiles
... this determines which RPM-created files you messed with, which
tells you how to build a spec file ...
c) Find other files that you set up yourself...
# rpm -q -a -l | sort > /tmp/allrpmedfiles
# cd /; find . -print > /tmp/allfiles
[and now comes the moderately gory step of figuring out which files
*you* set up that are not automatically generated...]
d) Build a spec file using the files from b) and c) for an RPM file
You'll create something like:
mysiteslocalization-1.0-noarch.rpm
This file would be installed (using the --force option) after all the
other "normal" RPMs get installed.
Automating b), c), and d) would be a Very Cool Idea.
--
"The newsreader abuse likely stems from more fundamental, than merely
just the UI, design disagreements. Requests from Unix programmers to
replicate Free Agent rightfully so should trigger the throwing of sharp
heavy objects at the requesting party." -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] (jedi)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: "Neil D. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: PPP is driving me crazy !!!! Plese help me
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:38:58 GMT
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
=======_NextPart_000_01AC_01BE4B17.8C079230
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK
Thanks for the help Bill, I have gotten one step further. New error msg.
Jan 28 22:33:54 localhost chat[1006]: send (^M)
Jan 28 22:33:54 localhost chat[1006]: send (^M)
Jan 28 22:33:54 localhost pppd[988]: Serial connection established.
Jan 28 22:33:55 localhost pppd[988]: Using interface ppp0
Jan 28 22:33:55 localhost pppd[988]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/cua0
Jan 28 22:34:28 localhost pppd[988]: IPCP: timeout sending =
Config-Requests
Jan 28 22:34:28 localhost pppd[988]: Connection terminated.
Jan 28 22:34:29 localhost pppd[988]: Exit.
I know I'm close.
=======_NextPart_000_01AC_01BE4B17.8C079230
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 5.00.0910.1309"' name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>OK</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks for the help Bill, I have gotten one step further. New error =
msg.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>
<DIV>Jan 28 22:33:54 localhost chat[1006]: send (^M)</DIV>
<DIV>Jan 28 22:33:54 localhost chat[1006]: send (^M)</DIV>
<DIV>Jan 28 22:33:54 localhost pppd[988]: Serial connection =
established.</DIV>
<DIV>Jan 28 22:33:55 localhost pppd[988]: Using interface ppp0</DIV>
<DIV>Jan 28 22:33:55 localhost pppd[988]: Connect: ppp0 <-->=20
/dev/cua0</DIV>
<DIV>Jan 28 22:34:28 localhost pppd[988]: <STRONG>IPCP: timeout sending=20
Config-Requests</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>Jan 28 22:34:28 localhost pppd[988]: Connection terminated.</DIV>
<DIV>Jan 28 22:34:29 localhost pppd[988]: Exit.</DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I know I'm close.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
=======_NextPart_000_01AC_01BE4B17.8C079230==
------------------------------
From: Austin Godber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Slow clock in X
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:44:15 +0000
Hello,
I have recently been trying to get ntp or xntpd to work because
after a few months I would be annoyed that my clock was several minutes
behind. Well, I decided against using xntpd after having trouble with
ntp servers at my school. Now the clock on my computer runs slow. I
have read some of the man pages (uhh only in HTML annoyingly enough) for
xntpd and seen that it will alter the clock rate. So I figure it
changed something when I was playing with it.
When I reboot the time is reset and appears to be running well
...until I start running X. At which time it is definately running
slowly (NOTE TO NERDS: my computer and I are in the same inertial
reference frame).
If anyone has any idea (other than not running X) on how to fix
this, I'd be greatful for the information.
Thanks
Austin Godber
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Doug <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Unable to mount cdrom
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:38:35 +0000
>From control; panel there is a mouinting tool i click on nount cdrom??
I used commsand s tooZ:
cd/mnt/cdrom
mount -t iso9660 /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom
cd/mnt/cdrom
????
Thanks for advise
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Doug ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> : When I go to mount my cdrom from user mount tool or by commands i get.
> : mount: block device /dev/cdrom is write-protected,mounting read only.
>
> : mount: wrong fs,bad option,bad superblock on dev/cdrom or too masny file
> : systems.
> <<<<<<snip>>>>>>
> Can you show us the exact command you type to mount it, and your
> /etc/fstab file? Those things would help to answer your question.
------------------------------
From: Bob Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.misc,comp.emacs,comp.editors
Subject: Re: Linux keyboard? (For emacs use)
Date: 29 Jan 1999 00:06:39 -0600
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In comp.editors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> FWIW, I like /both/ kinds of music [...]
Me too. Country and and the other kind, western.
--
========================================================================
Bob Nelson -- Dallas, Texas, USA ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
http://www.oldradio.com/archives/nelson/open-computing.html
``Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.''
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Dreyer)
Subject: Re: Linux - Where To Start???
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:07:07 GMT
Take a look at http://www.ssc.com/linux/apps/ftp.html
or the Linux Developement Project (LDP) at
http://sunsite.unc.edu/mdw/LDP/gs/node4.html
Good luck, |\|.
On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 16:36:40 -0800, "Paul Bunchuk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wroth:
>I m totally new to Linux my experience is with Windows and NT. Where to I
>start? I want to install Linux and start learning it. In particular I am
>looking for a list of fies to dwnld for the OS and where to get them.
>
>--
>Thank you,
>
>Paul Bunchuk
>Ft. Lauderdale, Fl
>
>
------------------------------
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: (Symbolic) Links
Date: 28 Jan 1999 09:33:47 -0500
Stefan Davids <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > "J�rgen Exner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > - hardlinks do not work for directories, softlinks do
> >
> > this is simply not true. hardlinks *do* work for directories.
> > furthermore, *every* directory has at least two hardlinks.
>
> I don't think this is what he means. I read it as making a hardlink
> to a directory. ie:
i know this isn't what he means. but it also misrepresents what a
hardlink really is and therefore leads to confusion. unless you take
the true meaning of link, things like link counts for directories will
never make any sense.
a hardlink is a mapping from pathname to inode. user programs use
pathnames to identify a file; the system (kernel) uses inode number.
now the mapping from pathnames can be many to one, i.e., more than one
pathname can refer to the same inode (which is the actual file). when
you make a hardlink, you are introducing a new pathname to refer to
the same inode.
let /foo be a file with inode number 2. you want to attach the
appelation /bar to this same inode, i.e., 2. however you cannot refer
to the inode directly but only via pathname proxy.
consider the steps in
ln /foo /bar
1) find that /foo maps to inode 2.
2) insert `bar' into the root directory and make this filename point
to inode 2.
hence
/foo ------> inode 2
/bar ---------^
/foo doesn't relate directly to /bar, but only via inode 2. notice
that both names /foo and /bar are equally valid.
a so-called softlink is different. it is a new level of indirection.
it works in pathname space.
ln -s /foo /baz
/baz -----> /foo -----> inode 2
/bar ---------^
/baz must go through /foo to reach inode 2.
sometimes you want hardlink, sometimes softlink.
--
johan kullstam
------------------------------
From: "R.L.F." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat.misc,linux.redhat.list,linux.redhat.install
Subject: Re: RHLinux "Deluxe" vs 'regular' RHL 5.2
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 04:40:50 -0800
Boy do I have the same problem.
I registered it with MacMillan but can not get any support from them.
-Rudy
Steve Sorden wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>I bought the deluxe version, thinking I was purchasing the official Red
>Hat product. I didn't realize that it had different tech support until I
>tried to register this weekend at Red Hat's web site.
>
>Although I'm satisfied with the CDs and manual, my question is whether
>Red Hat makes any money off these sales (to support on-going research
>and development), or is MacMillan taking advantage of the Open License
>and simply trying to make outrageous profit off of free software? My
>package listed at $40, although I didn't pay that due to a rebate.
>
>Also, I believe Red Hat provides 90 days of tech support, while
>Macmillan only provides 30.
>
>Steve Sorden
>
>
>Harold K L Ting wrote:
>>
>> It appears that the 'deluxe' version is a Macmillan press product, not
Redhat's
>> and therefore is not supported by Redhat. It says so on the CD jacket.
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> > officemax has the deluxe for "free after rebates"! get it before its
gone
>> >
>> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andy Wendel) wrote:
>> > > On Fri, 1 Jan 1999 04:58:50 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Hsieh) wrote:
>> > > I just bought the Deluxe version today, and there certainly was a
>> > > floppy in the package... as well as a hard copy, bound book, and 3
>> > > cds... I tried 3 different times to d/l rh5.2, as well as the suse
and
>> > > debian releases, and never managed to get them to install properly.
>> > > The only install I ever got running well was the Slackware install,
>> > > and it was a pain to do some things with... (I am too lazy to bother
>> > > with figuring out all the stuff in advance). Figuring all the time I
>> > > have involved with the d/ls, failed installs and hours of
frustration,
>> > > I think the 39.95 is well spent.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>> > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Consumer Poll Says Microsoft Is Good For Consumers
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:57:40 GMT
On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:14:38 -0600, Keith G. Murphy
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Julian T. J. Midgley wrote:
>>
>> Microsoft buys Hotmail, says "ha, we don't want any of this poxy Unix
>> stuff here", replaces all the servers with NT servers, and discovers
>> very rapidly that NT can't cope with the load. Equally rapidly, they
>> discover they haven't a chance in hell of fixing NT so that it can
>> cope with the load in time, so restore the old Linux [IIRC- may have
>> been some other brand of Unix] servers, which chug along merrily
>> wondering what on earth it was that NT was finding difficult about
>> all this.
>>
>Apparently, they're running FreeBSD. See http://www.netcraft.com.
The front end servers are running FreeBSD. Apparently the data, behind
the scenes, where you can't see it, is being stored on Solaris/SPARC
boxes.
And it is *not* evident that they started a project to replace
Solaris/FreeBSD with NT; while it's obvious that MSFT would be quite
happy to have Hotmail as an example of 'NT superiority' (rather than as
a public example of NT inadequacy), there is a distinct *lack* of
substantiation for claims that they actually installed NT at Hotmail for
mail management.
Lots of wild claims, certainly. Anything that I'd trust? Not.
--
But what can you do with it? -- ubiquitous cry from Linux-user partner.
(Submitted by Andy Pearce, [EMAIL PROTECTED])
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: UNIX - Who, What, Where?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:55:09 GMT
On 19 Jan 1999 18:14:52 -0500, Alexander Viro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <ME7p2.948$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>StressedOut <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>I have been reading about UNIX and Linux recently and have set up a practice
>>RHL machine. I see many suggestions that I should obtain Linux (or another
>>variant) because it's free, it's easy, etc., etc., etc. I just came across
>>another article saying, "Linux is great because its free and it uses similar
>>command and directory structures as other flavors ...". Similar to what,
>>exactly?
> To other members of family. Probably about a hundred of them.
>>I am wondering what the heck "UNIX" is. I mean _real_, unadulterated,
>>up-to-date, commercial grade, UNIX - THE Operating System.
> There is no THE. The last common ancestor is v7 (and that doesn't
>count stepchildren a-la Linux). As for most, erm, successful commercial
>ones now - well, Solaris, HP/UX, SGI, DG/UX, SCO. Plus there are other free
>Unices ({Free,Open,Net}BSD). Plus there is a monster called AIX (IBM ;-<).
>Plus many, many other.
If you want *official,* then consult
<http://www.UNIX-systems.org/questions_answers/faq.html>, the FAQ about
the proper use of the UNIX Trademark.
There are several "generations" in the UNIX "family."
On the one hand, Linux fails to be a UNIX based on branding and
trademarks, as well as based on certain components of recent official
standards (STREAMS being one of the major issues).
On the other hand, if you look back into history, Linux is more like
"real UNIXes" than many officially branded UNIXes that have existed.
>>Is there any advantage to using UNIX vs Linux?
> WHICH UNIX? Linux is one of them. Name your tasks, name the kind
>of UNIX you are going to use - then we may be able to compare.
Distinguishing between Linux and "true UNIX" has a tendancy to provide
an arbitrary/artificial barrier. Linux provides virtually all of the
same sorts of features (STREAMS, a controversial recent addition, being
the most notable exception), and is capable to do most of the same
things.
>>How much is it on average, and how and where might one "get" it?
>>
>>What machines will it run on?
>
> Probably anything not too braindead.
An "official" UNIX, based on the UNIX95 standard, limits you to a fairly
restrictive group. Digital UNIX is one; AIX is another; OS/390, with
the UNIX subsystem, is, hard though it may to believe, another. SCO is
likely one; UnixWare is surely one.
There are some of the "commercial guys" that basically are UNIXes, but
that, like Linux, are not officially branded as such. I don't think
that Solaris is a branded UNIX, which is very interesting if so.
>>Can I get an x86 version?
> Of what? For *BSD - visit their webpages (www.freebsd.org, etc.)
>For SCO and x86 Solaris - SCO and Sun. Look in news.answers for UNIX FAQ
>- it should contain what you need.
If someone wants to be a purist, I think that UNIXWare may well be the
only IA-32 "true UNIX." (With SCO and x86 Solaris as "possibles.")
The BSD folk like to claim direct family lineage, and that Linux lacks
this; they are nonetheless not branded as UNIX.
And the critical issue that would forcibly mandate a particular
selection would be something like:
"We want to run application Foo. Is it supported on [Pick Your Favorite
UNIX-like System]?"
To which the answer will either be "Yes," or "No." Whether the system is
a "pure/true" UNIX system or not will not determine the answer.
--
"In elementary school, in case of fire you have to line up quietly in a
single file line from smallest to tallest. What is the logic? Do tall
people burn slower?" -- Warren Hutcherson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
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