Linux-Misc Digest #771, Volume #21 Sun, 12 Sep 99 03:13:20 EDT
Contents:
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (John Hasler)
Linux reliability and scalability? (Jeff Holloway)
Re: New Red Hat - fdisk gone? (Bob Martin)
Re: Stupid FTP Question (Bob Martin)
Re: New Red Hat - fdisk gone? (Charles M)
Unable to load module on SMP kernel ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Getting mail from Hotmail.... (Robert Sheskin)
Re: cdrecord/mkisofs (Turgut Durduran)
Re: Can't access samba shares from windows 98 (Ironclaw)
Re: xfs on Redhat 6.0 (Hal Burgiss)
Re: FREE EAST TIMOR!!! STOP THE KILLING!!! ("William B. Cattell")
Re: Which soundcard is best for Linux? (Nick Urban)
Re: Red Hat 6 and /etc/issue ("William B. Cattell")
Re: xterm broken? ("T.E.Dickey")
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (K. Bjarnason)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (K. Bjarnason)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (K. Bjarnason)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (K. Bjarnason)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (K. Bjarnason)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (K. Bjarnason)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (K. Bjarnason)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:46:33 GMT
teknite writes:
> It looks like they incorporated the best features from YaST and RPM and
> added some of their own.
dselect and dpkg predate Yast. They were developed independently of RPM,
at about the same time.
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
------------------------------
From: Jeff Holloway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Linux reliability and scalability?
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:56:20 -0700
I've used Linux for years, but only for fun at first, then for mail,
dns, web servers and firewalls.
My company has a software product that runs on Unix in general. We have
it running on Solaris, SCO, HP/UX, AIX, etc. We've gotten several
inquiries about running it on Linux from prospective customers, and I
expect more of these as Linux makes its way into the mainstream.
My question is, does anyone have any personal experience with Linux in a
production environment, with the possibility of several hundred
concurrent users running the same application? I'd love to tell my
bosses that Linux is Ready For Prime Time, but some Real World examples
would be nice.
Followups are fine, but email would be better, as I may need to get more
specific information from anyone who might have experience with this.
Thanks...
Jeff
--
"There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their
home."
-- Ken Olson, President of DEC, World Future Society
Convention, 1977
------------------------------
From: Bob Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New Red Hat - fdisk gone?
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:58:41 +0000
Charles M wrote:
>
> Linux Weekly News (or maybe it was Slashdot) mentioned something about
> trying out the beta of 6.1 and that it no longer had fdisk!!!! Say it
> isn't so! Does anyone know if Red Hat is really removing this, the only
> usable partitoning tool?
>
>
Are you talking about for just their install process or they do not
install it on the system. If the the latter, what's the problem, they
can't stop you from putting it on your system, it's part of the
utils-linux package so just install that and you have fdisk.
------------------------------
From: Bob Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Stupid FTP Question
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:29:52 +0000
Orpheus wrote:
>
> I went to the Redhat support site with the Netscape browser, and when
> I found the file I wanted to download, netscape simply read it as a
> text file rather than implement FTP download.
>
> I figured I might download via Netscape in windoze and simply move the
> file over to my linux box, but wouldn't you know it, windoze Netscape
> thinks a *.rpm file is a real-media plug in or something, and tries to
> "play" it.
>
> good grief.
>
> so I figure I'll just ftp the file the old fashioned way, but I can't
> make a connection to ftp redhat either via ftp in linux (wu-ftp) or
> ftp in windoze (ws-ftp, an otherwise excellent program).
>
> My guess is that this has more to do with redhat than anything else,
> becaues ftp works fine otherwise. is there some secret to logging on
> to redhat ftp that I don't know about?
>
> Thanks for your help
Hold down the shift key when you click the file you want. The problem is
netscape can be setup with helper applications which will execute based
file types. Depending on how it is configured, for example when you
click on a file of .gz type it will decompress and display in a window
instead of saveing the file. You can change this by configuring the
helper applications in the edit/preferences window.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charles M)
Subject: Re: New Red Hat - fdisk gone?
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:03:10 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
> Are you talking about for just their install process or they do not
> install it on the system. If the the latter, what's the problem, they
> can't stop you from putting it on your system, it's part of the
> utils-linux package so just install that and you have fdisk.
>
It (supposedly) is not available during install. Since that's where you
might really first need to be able to use it (vs Disk Druid), I find this
news a bit disturbing. Mind you, I do not know if the final version of RH
6.1 will leave it out or not, but the fact that it is missing (per LWN)
in the install of the downloadable version is not a good sign. I am also
curious if anyone else has downloaded and tried the new version to
confirm this. That's what I was also asking about in my original post.
CMM
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Unable to load module on SMP kernel
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:25:32 GMT
I have been having trouble loading a driver module in Redhat 6.0. I am
running the 2.2.5-22smp kernel. After compiling and installing the
module, when I try to run insmod, it returns the following errors:
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol securebits
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol request_region
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol __wake_up
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol
tty_unregister_driver
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol
__generic_copy_from_user
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol schedule
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol kmalloc
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol
unregister_chrdev
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol
tty_register_driver
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol register_chrdev
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol release_region
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol kfree_s
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol __get_free_pages
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol vfree
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol boot_cpu_data
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol timer_table
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol iounmap
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol free_pages
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol __ioremap
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol del_timer
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol
interruptible_sleep_on
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol vmalloc
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol __verify_write
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol tty_hangup
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol xtime
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol sprintf
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol tty_check_change
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol tty_hung_up_p
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol check_region
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol jiffies
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol
tty_wait_until_sent
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol printk
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol add_timer
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol timer_active
/lib/modules/2.2.5-22smp/char/eqnx.o: unresolved symbol
__generic_copy_to_user
I tried modifying the Makefile for the driver and added the -D__SMP__
flags to the compilation, but that didn't seem to have any effect.
Earlier I had gotten kernel mismatch warnings, but I updated the source
on the machine to match the running kernel and that problem
disappeared. In desperation I tried to load the module on another
Redhat 6.0 machine, running 2.2.5-22 without smp, It loaded perfectly.
Now that I know it is not a kernel incompatibility problem or a problem
with the driver, I really would like to get this driver running on the
dual processor machine. If anyone knows of a solution to my dilemma, I
would really appreciate your answer.
Thanks,
Eric
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: Robert Sheskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Getting mail from Hotmail....
Date: 12 Sep 1999 00:07:01 -0500
>>>>> "Timothy" == Timothy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Timothy> Hi When I was using windows, I had set up outlook express
Timothy> to get mail from my Hotmail account so that I could read
Timothy> my mail offline. I was wondering if there was a similar
Timothy> way of getting mail in Linux for a web-based mail
Timothy> account. If not Hotmail, are there any other web-based
Timothy> mail accounts that allow this? Thanks......
The one for hotmail was abandoned by it's author, I think he got tired
of the constant changes. The only one I know off the top of my head is
netaddress. Look at freshmeat. I just got a new version with-in the
past week, its called NAMG.
--
Robert Sheskin
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Replace "nospam" with "tidalwave" for email
ICQ 5788323
AIM RobertLS
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Turgut Durduran)
Subject: Re: cdrecord/mkisofs
Date: 12 Sep 1999 05:16:46 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
brian moore ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Then you mounted it as iso9660, not Joliet. Linux can read Joliet cd's
: just fine. (Though it would much rather deal with rockridge disks, since
: they support things like symlinks, ownership and permissions.)
thanks.. aha.. I think this was the trick.
: > some people like to e-mail their replies. ignore it if you donot
: > like :)
: But they can do that with the 'reply' function of their news client.
not if I put a fake "reply-to" to prevent myself fromsome spam.
ugdc
------------------------------
From: Ironclaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Can't access samba shares from windows 98
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 05:31:25 GMT
Claudio Francese wrote:
Some versions of Samba require that you enable clear text authentication on
win98/98 machines so that the sharing works correctly. The easiest way to
do this is to get the registry key from /usr/doc/packages/samba and install
it into the win9x machine, it would be Win95_PlainPassword.reg or
Win98_PlainPassword.reg.
> I installed Redhat linux 5.2 on a Toshiba Satellite 110CS laptop with a
> 3com pc-combo network card, I set up Samba and accessed without problems
> linux files from Windows 95 on a Pentium Intel 133MHz with a Realtek
> RTL8029 network adapter installed.
>
> Now when I try to access samba shares from Windows98 on a AMD-K6III,
> Realtek RTL8029(AS), I get an error message about password mismatch (I
> checked for mistakes but it seems all right). If I type NET VIEW in a
> dos shell under windows 98 I find Samba Server in the list but if I type
> NET VIEW \\laptopname I get the same password mismatch error.
>
> I installed the latest version of drivers for RTL8029(AS) (from
> www.realtek.com.tw ) and the same network protocols and services in both
> microsoft os.
>
> Did someone else experience this problem?
>
> Thanks in advance
> Claudio Francese
>
> Please also email me
>
>
================== Posted via CNET Linux Help ==================
http://www.searchlinux.com
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hal Burgiss)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: xfs on Redhat 6.0
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 12 Sep 1999 01:38:20 -0500
On 11 Sep 1999 18:40:39 -0500, Hal Burgiss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:20:07 GMT, R.K.Aa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Err... isn't it mentioned in the same "newfontsystem" whitepaper you
>>yourself quoted from earlyer?
>>
>Yes, but unfortunately there is not enough free space in my brain folder
>to accept new data readily ;)
>
>And, including some worthwhile documentation with 6.0 itself would have
>been a nice touch.
>
>>Hal Burgiss wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I solved my problem. From what I can tell, X uses the FontPath as
>>> defined in /etc/X11/XF86Config, this regardless of what is in
>>> /etc/X11/fs/config or whatever font server config file there is. When I
>>> upgraded, my FontPath was the same from previous version. Once I changed
>>> it to 'unix/:-1' and commented out the old FontPath, restarted xfs and
>>> then restarted X, I finally had true type. This may be documented
>>> somewhere, but it's sure hard to find.
>>
>>--
Partially solved. NS gives me 2 choices for pt size with true type fonts
-- 0 and 12. Yesterday I had selections comparable to other fonts -- up
to 24 pt, and was using a true type at 18 in NS. After rebooting,
something is different and all I can get is 12. xfontsel shows many pt
sizes, so they are available, but NS isn't recognizing anything accept
12 pt. Any ideas on this? 12 pt at my resolution is just too small.
Also, I notice ttmkfdir and mkfontdir produce identical output. I
checked this with 'diff' and there is no diff. So what is big deal about
ttkmkfdir anyway?
--
Hal B
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Linux helps those who help themselves
------------------------------
From: "William B. Cattell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.m68k
Subject: Re: FREE EAST TIMOR!!! STOP THE KILLING!!!
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 05:41:27 GMT
James Knott wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Pedro RA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Sorry to post off topic but this is EXTREMELY important!
> >
> >FREE EAST TIMOR NOW!
> >STOP THE KILLING KNOW!
> >
> >Please take a look at the nearest
> >internacional news broadcast.
> >
> >Remember KOSOVO, RUANDA,
> >BOSNIA, CAMBODJA, KURDISTAN,
> >or the HOLOCAUST. Or remember all
> >of them. You may as well add
> >EAST TIMOR to this list.
> >
> >DO SOMETHING!
> >
> >Do what ever you can.
> >
> >Better even:
> >STOP SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED!
> >
> > FREE EAST TIMOR
>
> Let's all send them our old Linux CDs!!!
That's actually not a bad idea... We can lobby congress and the UN to send
a Peacekeeping mission over and then train the Timorians(?) on how to
sharpen the edge of the used CD we send them. They can then use them as
weapons and achienve their freedom. Or we could keep the old CDs and use
them for coasters. ;-)
Bill
--
==============================================================
http://members.home.com/wcattell
==============================================================
Park not thy Harley in the darkness of thine garage, that it
may collect dust for want of being oft ridden. Ride thy Harley
with thy brethren, and rejoice in the spirit of the road.
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Urban)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Which soundcard is best for Linux?
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:28:11 -0700
Mine was even easier to set up than that. I don't know what distrubutions
include this, but redhat installed something called "sndconfig" which made
the whole thing a breeze. I popped in my SB16, an ran sndconfig. It
autodetected the card, and updated /etc/conf.modules. After that sound
just worked.
If you have a well-known card I would try to use sndconfig before spending
a lot of time manually messing with that stuff. Especially if you are a
newbie, in which case the sound problem is no doubt one of only 1000
things that are confusing the hell out of you. I know they did me ;-)
Nick Urban
<snip>
>Getting most soundcards to work is a matter of installing the correct driver
>as a module, running pnpdump, editing the output file to set the IRQ / DMA and
>then running isapnp at each boot (oh, and update conf.modules to reflect the
>new settings).
>
>To be honest, it is not half as bad as it seemed a year ago when I started on
>Linux.
<snip>
------------------------------
From: "William B. Cattell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Red Hat 6 and /etc/issue
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 05:49:04 GMT
"Aaron B. Hockley" wrote:
>
> OK, I am trying to change the message that is diplayed at the login
> prompt, which is the contents of /etc/issue
>
> I can change this file, log out, and when I go to log in the new text
> is displayed.
>
> However, when I reboot, I get the default message back again and it
> has replaced my custom /etc/issue
>
> What's going on?
>
> Aaron
> --
> Aaron B. Hockley, Consultant
> ABH Solutions
> Professional Internet Design & Computer Consulting Services
> http://www.abhsolutions.com
Edit your /etc/rc.d/rc.local file and rem out the section that copies over
the issue file. I did that then edited /etc/issue and /etc/issue.net and
put my message in. Works like a champ.
Bill
--
==============================================================
http://members.home.com/wcattell
==============================================================
Park not thy Harley in the darkness of thine garage, that it
may collect dust for want of being oft ridden. Ride thy Harley
with thy brethren, and rejoice in the spirit of the road.
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: "T.E.Dickey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: xterm broken?
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:12:05 GMT
Artit J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> After compiling xterm from the source, now it just dies with a
> segmentation fault. Any ideas? Right now I am using Eterm, because that
> is the only thing that will work (wterm won't compile, rxvt segfaults).
It sounds as if you neglected to recompile the X libraries as well (or
obtain ones that match glibc 2.11).
--
Thomas E. Dickey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.clark.net/pub/dickey
------------------------------
From: K. Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:25:40 -0700
[snips]
In article <7rc0nk$2n8$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Sep 10 22:29:21 1999 GMT
> X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.61 [en] (WinNT; I)
> X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x29.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 209.241.102.24
> X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDcbass2112
>
> "It's your car. It's your fuel injection system. But don't you *dare*
> attempt to [install] it yourself, UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT THE F*CK YOU'RE
> DOING."
>
> see what I emphasized with THREE ASTERISKS????
Yes. "Dare" "fuck". No thanks, you're not my type.
------------------------------
From: K. Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:25:38 -0700
[sniups]
In article <7r97v5$1p8$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> K. Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > No, like a car owner wanting to *drive* his car without knowing how
> > the engine works.
>
> No. *Driving* a car is simply *using* it. *Installing* software is
> *not* using a computer
Note to self: when installing applications, you are not using your
computer. Presumably you are calling the Psychic Friends Network and
they are beaming healing energy rays at your machine to do what you need
done.
------------------------------
From: K. Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:25:44 -0700
[snips]
In article <7rbbpu$iju$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> Wrong. *Using* a computer is analogous to *using* (i.e., driving) a car.
> I was discussing *installing* software, which is not the same as *using*
> a computer.
Paging Psychic Friends Network.
------------------------------
From: K. Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:25:48 -0700
In article <Pine.LNX.4.10.9909100817210.4151-100000
@willmann.stanford.edu>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> one of the many things most linux distros do better than M$windows is
> package management. But then again, you would need to try linux which
> appearantly you are unwilling to do. What are you doing in this ng
> anyway, if I may a ask.
Unwilling to do? How do you come by that? I haven't had _time_ to
install it since I got hold of a Mandrake CD, but that's a matter of
being too busy.
Try to cope with the issues at hand; your pet fantasies about my
personailty and willingness or lack thereof to do something aren't
relevant.
------------------------------
From: K. Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:25:56 -0700
[snips]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX)
> If you really want standard:
> tar xfz <filename>
> cd <dirname>
> ./configure
> make
> make install
Hey, Granddad, write this down. It's only 5 lines.
<phone rings>
Hello?
What's that? You downloaded some program and can't install it? Why
not? You *did* write down that text, right?
Oh, okay. You can't do it in your text editor. Drop to the shell.
The shell? The command prompt. You know, that text mode screen where
you see those wierd names? Yeah, that thing. Okay, where are you?
<sigh> Try pwd.
Okay, now, cd to wherever you downloaded your program to.
Can't find it? Try, umm... ls -l, I think.
Oh, you see your download directory? Okay, change directory there.
No, no... at the shell prompt. Never mind the pretty windows.
Okay, you're there? Good. Now type those commands.
Now, go back to your GUI. You know, the graphical screen.
Now create a shortcut to wherever the program installed itself. Sorry,
can't help you on doing that... I have to go shoot myself.
------------------------------
From: K. Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:25:58 -0700
[snips]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> > Easy to use, rock-solid (at least the NT flavours) and fun - the Windows
> > experience.
>
> Tell that to my friend who seems to have to reinstall Win98 every
> other month.
Tell your friend to get a real machine. Since installing Win98 on one
box - a heavily used box - I've had to reinstall it once. It's been
running now for about 2 years, and has suffered through, among other
things, two new CD drives, a second HD, a new motherboard, more - and
less - memory, and three video cards.
> > Yes, I know, it doesn't like the sort of $1.99 hardware people who can
> > only afford a free OS will typically throw at it; then again, if you're
> > worried about stability, you shouldn't be trying to run on crap
> > hardware. Get a real machine.
> >
> > That, by the way, is serious advice, not some pointless jab.
>
> You call an x86 based machine a "real machine"?!
For a desktop system? Absolutely. Oh, if we want to talk _real_
machines, we can always talk about the old HP box I used to work on. 20
users, an average of 60 processes, running in 256K of RAM up until a
couple of years back, when they upgraded it to 2Mb. Typical uptimes on
the order of years, other than for regularly scheduled maintenance.
Then again, most desktop users couldn't afford the price tag.
Now, since we _know_ that Windows crashes regularly on crap hardware,
and we can see that you conveniently dodged the issue, we can conclude
that the box in question was, in fact, a crap system.
> > I've seen
> > a few - very few - unstable NT installs, and so far, they're almost
> > exclusively due to crap hardware. Given decent - and we're not talking
> > top-of-the-line here, just in proper working order - equipment, and NT
> > has always, in my experience, run rock-solid.
>
> And you solve the DLL Hell problem how?
Since *nobody* I know has experienced this since Windows 3, I don't see
any particular need to solve it.
> NT is much more expensive than Win9x, and won't run all the games I
> want to run. Is it so much to ask for a stable version of Windows at
> an affordable price?
Affordable to whom? You? Me? The guy down the street? Affordable is
an entirely subjective thing - what are you willing to pay for X, what
is its worth to you, compared to your other expenses and/or wants?
If the pricetag of Windows isn't worth it to you, fine - don't use it.
If it is, then go buy it and quit whining.
------------------------------
From: K. Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:25:53 -0700
[snips]
In article <7rbi6k$atp$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> Well, typing "make" is pretty simple and standard, but I agree to a
> point that distros and apps tailored to non-technical users could make
> it even simpler. Maybe put an icon out on the desktop which when
> clicked would mount /dev/cdrom, look for one or more Makefiles, prompt
> the user to select one, and then fire away. That would be even
> simpler than finding and running e:\SomeProg\SomeDirectory\Setup.exe,
> which I've found that many Windows users are incapable of doing.
Perfect example. And yes, some folks _are_ sufficiently computer
illiterate - sometimes even computer-afraid - to find such things, even
in as friendly an environment as Windows. God help them if you gave
them a *nix box with no GUI and said "Here, go to it". :)
Let's face it - *no* OS is perfect. Windows is still too resource
hungry. It's non-NT kernels are too instable. Linux, however, while it
may win on those scores, is still behind Windows in terms of ease of use
for the _typical_ desktop user. Both systems could use improvement -
and both will probably continue to need improvement for decades to come.
> The strength of Unix and Linux is not uniformity, but flexibility.
> The two are not always in conflict, and when you can achieve both, you
> should, but if the two are in fundamental conflict then the more
> flexible solution will most likely win out.
Depends on who's coping with it. As a geek, I'd tend to prefer the more
flexible option - I like to fiddle with things. As someone who has to
keep Granddad's (and Auntie's, and the girlfriend's and...) systems
running in a manner _they_ can cope with, I'd go for the simpler option
without a second's thought.
> And this very fact demonstrates one advantage of the Unix/Linux
> approach: for things like package management where a centralized
> database of installed packages is needed, it can exist, with a fairly
> standardized location and format, but at the same time there can be a
> *variety* of front-ends to this database, for differing classes of
> users and user preferences.
Sounds like Linux is, in fact, becoming more user-friendly. This is a
Good Thing(tm). :)
> Why someone would prefer the Windows "one size fits all" approach is
> beyond me. Any appropriate Linux distro will give you package
> management, with not one, but several tools which may look and feel a
> little different, but any of which make adding or removing packages
> *at least* as easy as it would be under Windows, if not more so.
Yet we still have Linvocates suggesting that users _should_ know about,
and even be required to cope with, such things as command-line-driven
copy / config / make / install processing, complete with "version
management" by using multiple directories with embedded version numbers,
and...
I think we'll _both_ agree that for the typical desktop user, this is
simply _not_ an option.
------------------------------
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