Bear Giles <[email protected]> wrote: > I know the trend is to do everything via ansible etc. instead of a live > console. I know it's just as fast, perhaps even faster, for an expert. > However a lot of shops still do things 'live', or at least require the > ability to work at the CLI. That means knowing vi. >
When one has 2,000 instances (I do), 'live' is a PITA. And if your servers are stateless, such as with various container and virtualization technology instances, 'live' means 'in memory only.' That said, if someone doesn't account for all the false positives in a regex or something else, the Ansible Playbook can result in several 'broken systems,' and one needs to hastily login and fix something on 10-20 systems, those same container and virtualization technology instances only have busybox or vi, if anything. E.g., I have over 200 instances now where my only option is Python, as shell tools are extremely limited, and no busybox or vi is an option. No 'host' or 'nslookup' either -- we use gethostbyaddr()/gethostbyname() in Python. This is 'real world' people, and our future -- and we're actually behind here -- only about 10% of our environment, while others are 30-50%, or more. I.e., That's _exactly_ why I brought up this arc. There are systems with _no_ text editors and _limited_ tooling these days ... purposely. So if we're talking about deprecating Vi, let's deprecate 'interactive' in general ... for the future we're all going to be living in the 2020s (if not since 2015). Alan McKinnon <[email protected]> wrote: > Let's use vi and apache as examples of a growing trend ... > Now editors are important, sysadmins must be able to change text files to > suit their needs. The skill is changing the file and knowing what must be > in it, the tool doesn't have to be vi - these days, it very frequently > isn't and is absent. > Vi is absent, and other text editors installed? Really? Did I really age fast and miss that? Huh? Alan McKinnon <[email protected]> wrote: > Same with web servers. I have not deployed apache for some years now, my > http server of choice is nginx as I do not need the full feature set apache > provides. And additionally, nginx is usually a reverse proxy and flask is > the actual backend ... > Let me also just point out that LPI has dealt with this type of problem at > least once before - there was a time when sendmail reigned supreme. Then > along came postfix, exim and qmail and sendmail's relevance as the primary > MTA fell away ... > So you're telling me many GNU/Linux distributions are no longer shipping Vi by default, just like they don't ship Sendmail by default, and default to another solution ... especially in a minimal install? Really?!?!?! I think we're really talking apples'n oranges here. Unless I'm really old and/or ignorant. Because in all the minimal installs I still do of various distros, only Vi gets installed, not Nano and other things. And then there are the 'stateless' solutions that are taking over, which don't offer any text editor, and a number of tools. - bjs
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