> Many text editors these days make it quite convenient to edit files remotely by using > ssh, scp, or similar tools to copy content back and forth, so you can run the > editor of your choice (including vim, if you must) on the big-ass graphical > workstation under your desk in order to edit files on the editor-less > “minimal” virtual machine somewhere in the cloud.
What about bastion hosts? I know some allow transparent SSH forwarding but aren't many configured to prohibit forwarding? You have to drop into a shell on the bastion and establish connections from it. On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 5:43 PM Bryan J Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > Anselm Lingnau <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Nope. I don't have a big issue with vi coverage at weight 1, > > > Because text editing isn't important, correct? I agree ... if we're not > going to test 'interactive' sysadmin concepts. That's the purpose of this > thread. I'm for even removing all text editing altogether, along with > other things 'interactive'. > > However ... > > simply because basic vi is quite easy to learn. I think the current >> weight-3 objective is a >> waste of two perfectly good weight points. >> > What I can't stand is people claiming that vi is the One True Editor and >> that >> you can't be a True Sysadmin™ unless you use vi. > > > You can. And you can be _'dead in the water'_ in these cases too ... ;) > - The common, Enterprise, 'reduced attack vector' install these days only > with Vi (or busybox with only Vi) > - VMware, KVM SPICE, etc... console that doesn't handle cursor input > correctly > - Random characters splashing and dorking up the screen as a result of > misunderstood codes by 'the other side' > - Etc... > > I've been there, 15 minutes to get on-line, or utterly away from any > Internet (but had voice), while a junior sysadmin not only couldn't edit a > file, but he screwed up a /etc/fstab. Sorry, but yeah ... this decade no > less. ;) > > Vi is a living fossil that by historical accident is left over from the >> 1970s. > > > That has nothing to do with the exam though.** > > If it's the only tool available in most distros and their minimal > installs, as well as busybox, then it's the gold standard. It's not like > distros that have switched to postfix and others, away from sendmail, by > default. Vi has continued to be the default, and usually only, in distro > minimal installs, along with busybox and others. > > Why is that?** > > If nano or something else was shipping, and Vi optional, in distros, and > busybox, you'd get *0* argument from me. But it's not. It's always Vi. > Vi is always there ... or _nothing_ is there. > > So let's either test Vi, and to the max, or _nothing_. That's it. > > It is cool but only in the sense that a coelacanth is cool; you can't help >> but be impressed that it >> managed to stick around as long as it did in a world that changed such a >> lot >> in the meantime. > > > Because it's damn useful. That's why it's the only text editor in many > cases.** > > >> Other 1970s icons haven't fared nearly as well; not even Unix >> sysadmins still wear bell-bottom corduroy trousers and platform soles. >> > > Ummm, there back in the US. Sorry to tell you. They're in again, and > have been for awhile, especially among American females (good decade or so). > > As far as “removing 'interactive' altogether” is concerned, I think we >> need to >> draw a line somewhere. The trend is towards automation and chances are >> that in >> the future we'll type fewer commands into interactive shells. But the >> shell >> and the Unix toolkit of commands are going to stick around for a while > > > So how are we going to edit those? > Or are we all 'script kiddies' in LPIC-1, and leave the writing to > others? ;) > What about system configuration files? > > Text editing is an absolute requirement. > Hence ... Vi is always there ... unless nothing is there. > You cannot escape that reality, everything else aside. > > Give me a list of distributions that include any other editor by default, > and not Vi, and I'm all ears. > Go ahead. It can even be a subset of distros, a minority. > I'd actually like to see one ... just one, single distro (just 1). > > (there will always be scripts or Ansible playbooks). So “removing >> 'interactive' >> altogether” may be easier said than done. I'm all in favour of >> acknowledging >> the importance of tools like Ansible but perhaps not in LPIC-1. >> > > So we need text editing. > So, what distros don't install Vi, but another editor by default? > That's the question. > > And is text editing not important? > Or is it one of the most important skill to know for LPIC-1? > > I could live with not covering text editing in LPIC-1 at all. > > > Now that's the argument, not the "I'm tired of the rite of passage" > argument.** > So what do we put in place of text editing? > What do we get for those 2-3 extra weights? > > That of course wouldn't mean text editing doesn't exist or people >> shouldn't edit text, it's >> just that (a) text editing on Linux in 2019 doesn't necessarily mean >> “vi”, and >> (b) we don't examine people on other very basic skills like typing or >> using a >> mouse either, we just assume that they're proficient enough at these >> skills to >> do whatever is needed. > > > So using Vi and its bindings is like using a mouse? > Or were you thinking of nano? ;) > > Adding the use of a text editor to this set of basic >> skills isn't a huge thing, and we can assume that basic exam prep >> materials >> and classes will still have a thing or two to say about text editing, >> even if >> it is “run the ‘vimtutor’ command and I'll see you in a quarter of an >> hour”. >> > > So my selfish interest, from experience, with junior admins screwing up > systems that don't know Vi doesn't factor in. > > My junior admins launching something that suddenly defaulted to Vi because > VISUAL wasn't set, or Vi was the only editor on the system -- not of > concern. It's really not required. It's not important. > > It's like a mouse? > > Because I really don't. >> > > But you do. We have far more in common than we do not. > > - bjs > > **P.S. Sounds like RPN for calculators, even today on-screen or a phone. > Why should I run Galculator or RealCalc in RPN modes, let alone pull out my > 4MHz Saturn-based HP 48G (that needs 3xAAA every 5-7 years)? > > I'm stupid. I'm old. I'm a dinosaur. I'm not arguing for anyone to know > it. But ... it is sure efficient. > > I still get people who come over, see me doing bitrate or storage > calculations and go, _"What the heck is that?"_ or _"Oh, that's one of > those 'Enter' type calculators."_ > > Why do people get upset with those of us who are _'efficient'_? I'm not > _'forcing'_ RPN on anyone, any more than Vi. But if people are wondering > how I work over a limited connection, or am able to automate the changes in > many lines, or do a regex right in the editor, then ... well, I think my > point sticks ... had hard, harder than people want to admit. > > Which is why the _'interest'_ turns to _'envy'_ which then turns to > _'attitude.'_ "You and you [Vi|RPN|...] absolutists! You don't need to > know all those things or how to use it!" Sure, you don't. But why the > attitude? Oh, that's right, you run into Vi ... because it's the only > thing on a system in many cases. > > I realized it's pretty much an universal issue, when my wife got her 2nd > Masters Degree while teaching elementary. Some teachers thought it was > great that she specialized into Digital Literacy, after her first Masters > in Reading. Others completely gave her continual flak over it, and my wife > (who grew up very poor) is the most humble person I know. Why? > > Apparently Reading and Digital Literacy is pretty important in Education > these days, and for some reason, her having those skillsets really just > pissed a select number of teachers off. It's not like it was the pay > (+$1K/year for just any post-graduate, that's it). > > > _______________________________________________ > lpi-examdev mailing list > [email protected] > https://list.lpi.org/mailman/listinfo/lpi-examdev
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