The cover of this Ms has: BIBLIOTHEQUE NATIONALE PARIS ---------------DEPARTMENT DE LA MUSIQUE Res - 1106
This is correct. This manuscript is in the Bibliotheque nationale in Paris. I don't know whether people on this list are familiar with Gerard Rebours' thematic catalogue of De Visee. This lists all the sources which include music by De Visee with the correct library sigla. He has listed 6 manuscripts which inlcude theorbo versions and 6 which include lute versions. There is some overlap between them. Only two of them are dated.
I know for a fact that he has examined all of them personally and is a reliable and source of information.
I don't really want to type them all out but I would scan it for anyone who wants a copy.
R1575 (41035) /Rap 9/
This may be the number of the microfilm which they keep on file. There isn't a ms. with this call mark or one with the call mark 25391 so perhaps this is also the microfilm number.
Monica
I've had my copy for many years now so don't recall it's precise source but may have been a microfilm from BN Paris. I've also now copied my recent email to the Baroque Lute list referencing R1575 to the Lute List MH --- On Fri, 12/8/11, David Smith <[email protected]> wrote: From: David Smith <[email protected]> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo To: "'R. Mattes'" <[email protected]>, "'Mathias Roesel'" <[email protected]>, [email protected] Date: Friday, 12 August, 2011, 17:02 Searching at the BnF catalog [1]http://catalogue.bnf.fr/jsp/recherchemots_simple.jsp?nouvelleRecherc he=O&nou veaute=O&host=catalogue I see no results that match 1575 or 25391. Any suggestions on finding them or help in clarifying what the numbers refer to? Regards David -----Original Message----- From: R. Mattes [mailto:[2][email protected]] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 12:42 AM To: David Smith; 'Mathias Roesel'; [3][email protected] Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:57:08 -0700, David Smith wrote > Excuse me for what may be a stupid question but which manuscripts are > Paris BN 1575 and BN 25391? I have tried to search for these using > Google with no success. Where are they located, names, and are they > available? Sorry, I'm far away from my reference works, but I think these would be F-BN .., meaning "France, Bibliotheque National ..." HTH Ralf Mattes > Regards > David Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: [4][email protected] [mailto:[5][email protected]] > On Behalf Of Mathias Roesel Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:46 PM > To: [6][email protected] Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo > > > I would object to the idea that some version is a "rewrite" of > > another version. I take all three version > > (guitar/theorbo/score) as renderings of the same compositional idea. > > A bit more than that, no? Exact transpositions of the same pieces, I'd > say. Perhaps we won't be able to tell which was first (as in Lessing's > Ring Parable), but it's pretty clear that one _was_ first and the > others are adaptations. > > > > These pieces were not published in print as theorbo pieces at all. > > > The publication of the Pieces de Theorbe et de Luth in 1716 > > > suggests that the music previously existed as theorbo music, but > > > it wasn't published in print. Saizenay is dated 1699, but R1575 > > > (and its sister ms.) is considerably earlier, probably. > > > > > You know of any source earlier than 1682? Would you mind sharing? > > Paris BN 1575 and BN 25391 are two theorbo mss. that abound with music > by de Visee. Some concordances with Saizenay, but both mss. > seem to be much earlier than 1699 and earlier than 1680, I'd say. > > > Why? It might well be a written down version of the "core" composition. > > The instrument-specific versions adapt to the resp. instruments range. > > I for one have never heard of such a thing like a core composition, > to be used for instrument-specific adaptations, in the 17th century. > > > But who claimed that? The statement I questioned (and still do) was > > that since the scored version is a forth higher that implies a > > theorbo tuned a forth higher. > > An idea that was positively maintained e. g. by Jose Moreno in the > booklet to his CD with music by de Visee. I agree with you in doubting it. > > Mathias > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- R. Mattes - Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg [8][email protected] -- References 1. http://catalogue.bnf.fr/jsp/recherchemots_simple.jsp?nouvelleRecherche=O&nou 2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
