> Paris Ms. Fonds Conservatoire National Rés. 1106 has another marking on it's > front page: R 1575 (41035) > > David - one down, one to go
Thank you, David! I only have the xeroxes. The other one possibly is Paris BN Vm7-6265. 86 pages, many concordances with Saizenay, some of them deviating, two concordances with R 1575 (Rés. 1106). Two courantes for the baroque lute on the last two pages (La belle homicide by Gaultier, and one by Dubut par. Barbe p. 43). and the D-major section was wrongly inserted before the ms. was page-numbered, now dividing an allemande by LeMoine (p. 46-7 and p. 57). Perhaps these data will do to identify the manuscript? Mathias > On 12 August 2011 18:02, David Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > > Searching at the BnF catalog > > http://catalogue.bnf.fr/jsp/recherchemots_simple.jsp?nouvelleRecherche > > =O&nou veaute=O&host=catalogue I see no results that match 1575 or > > 25391. > > Any suggestions on finding them or help in clarifying what the numbers > > refer to? > > > > Regards > > David > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: R. Mattes [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 12:42 AM > > To: David Smith; 'Mathias Rösel'; [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo > > > > On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:57:08 -0700, David Smith wrote > >> Excuse me for what may be a stupid question but which manuscripts are > >> Paris BN 1575 and BN 25391? I have tried to search for these using > >> Google with no success. Where are they located, names, and are they > >> available? > > > > Sorry, I'm far away from my reference works, but I think these would > > be F-BN .., meaning "France, Bibliotheque National ..." > > > > HTH Ralf Mattes > > > >> Regards > >> David Smith > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > >> On Behalf Of Mathias Rösel Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:46 PM > >> To: [email protected] Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for > >> theorbo > >> > >> > I would object to the idea that some version is a "rewrite" of > >> > another version. I take all three version > >> > (guitar/theorbo/score) as renderings of the same compositional idea. > >> > >> A bit more than that, no? Exact transpositions of the same pieces, > >> I'd say. Perhaps we won't be able to tell which was first (as in > >> Lessing's Ring Parable), but it's pretty clear that one _was_ first > >> and the others are adaptations. > >> > >> > > These pieces were not published in print as theorbo pieces at all. > >> > > The publication of the Pieces de Theorbe et de Luth in 1716 > >> > > suggests that the music previously existed as theorbo music, but > >> > > it wasn't published in print. Saizenay is dated 1699, but R1575 > >> > > (and its sister ms.) is considerably earlier, probably. > >> > > > >> > You know of any source earlier than 1682? Would you mind sharing? > >> > >> Paris BN 1575 and BN 25391 are two theorbo mss. that abound with > >> music by de Visee. Some concordances with Saizenay, but both mss. > >> seem to be much earlier than 1699 and earlier than 1680, I'd say. > >> > >> > Why? It might well be a written down version of the "core" composition. > >> > The instrument-specific versions adapt to the resp. instruments range. > >> > >> I for one have never heard of such a thing like a core composition, > >> to be used for instrument-specific adaptations, in the 17th century. > >> > >> > But who claimed that? The statement I questioned (and still do) was > >> > that since the scored version is a forth higher that implies a > >> > theorbo tuned a forth higher. > >> > >> An idea that was positively maintained e. g. by Jose Moreno in the > >> booklet to his CD with music by de Visee. I agree with you in doubting it. > >> > >> Mathias > >> > >> To get on or off this list see list information at > >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > > > > -- > > R. Mattes - > > Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > ******************************* > David van Ooijen > [email protected] > www.davidvanooijen.nl > ******************************* >
