Paris Ms. Fonds Conservatoire National Rés. 1106 has another marking on it's front page: R 1575 (41035)
David - one down, one to go On 12 August 2011 18:02, David Smith <d...@dolcesfogato.com> wrote: > Searching at the BnF catalog > http://catalogue.bnf.fr/jsp/recherchemots_simple.jsp?nouvelleRecherche=O&nou > veaute=O&host=catalogue I see no results that match 1575 or 25391. > Any suggestions on finding them or help in clarifying what the numbers refer > to? > > Regards > David > > -----Original Message----- > From: R. Mattes [mailto:r...@mh-freiburg.de] > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 12:42 AM > To: David Smith; 'Mathias Rösel'; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo > > On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:57:08 -0700, David Smith wrote >> Excuse me for what may be a stupid question but which manuscripts are >> Paris BN 1575 and BN 25391? I have tried to search for these using >> Google with no success. Where are they located, names, and are they >> available? > > Sorry, I'm far away from my reference works, but I think these would be F-BN > .., meaning "France, Bibliotheque National ..." > > HTH Ralf Mattes > >> Regards >> David Smith >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] >> On Behalf Of Mathias Rösel Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:46 PM >> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo >> >> > I would object to the idea that some version is a "rewrite" of >> > another version. I take all three version >> > (guitar/theorbo/score) as renderings of the same compositional idea. >> >> A bit more than that, no? Exact transpositions of the same pieces, I'd >> say. Perhaps we won't be able to tell which was first (as in Lessing's >> Ring Parable), but it's pretty clear that one _was_ first and the >> others are adaptations. >> >> > > These pieces were not published in print as theorbo pieces at all. >> > > The publication of the Pieces de Theorbe et de Luth in 1716 >> > > suggests that the music previously existed as theorbo music, but >> > > it wasn't published in print. Saizenay is dated 1699, but R1575 >> > > (and its sister ms.) is considerably earlier, probably. >> > > >> > You know of any source earlier than 1682? Would you mind sharing? >> >> Paris BN 1575 and BN 25391 are two theorbo mss. that abound with music >> by de Visee. Some concordances with Saizenay, but both mss. >> seem to be much earlier than 1699 and earlier than 1680, I'd say. >> >> > Why? It might well be a written down version of the "core" composition. >> > The instrument-specific versions adapt to the resp. instruments range. >> >> I for one have never heard of such a thing like a core composition, >> to be used for instrument-specific adaptations, in the 17th century. >> >> > But who claimed that? The statement I questioned (and still do) was >> > that since the scored version is a forth higher that implies a >> > theorbo tuned a forth higher. >> >> An idea that was positively maintained e. g. by Jose Moreno in the >> booklet to his CD with music by de Visee. I agree with you in doubting it. >> >> Mathias >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > -- > R. Mattes - > Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg > r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de > > > > -- ******************************* David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl *******************************
