Searching at the BnF catalog http://catalogue.bnf.fr/jsp/recherchemots_simple.jsp?nouvelleRecherche=O&nou veaute=O&host=catalogue I see no results that match 1575 or 25391. Any suggestions on finding them or help in clarifying what the numbers refer to?
Regards David -----Original Message----- From: R. Mattes [mailto:r...@mh-freiburg.de] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 12:42 AM To: David Smith; 'Mathias Rösel'; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:57:08 -0700, David Smith wrote > Excuse me for what may be a stupid question but which manuscripts are > Paris BN 1575 and BN 25391? I have tried to search for these using > Google with no success. Where are they located, names, and are they > available? Sorry, I'm far away from my reference works, but I think these would be F-BN .., meaning "France, Bibliotheque National ..." HTH Ralf Mattes > Regards > David Smith > > -----Original Message----- > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] > On Behalf Of Mathias Rösel Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:46 PM > To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo > > > I would object to the idea that some version is a "rewrite" of > > another version. I take all three version > > (guitar/theorbo/score) as renderings of the same compositional idea. > > A bit more than that, no? Exact transpositions of the same pieces, I'd > say. Perhaps we won't be able to tell which was first (as in Lessing's > Ring Parable), but it's pretty clear that one _was_ first and the > others are adaptations. > > > > These pieces were not published in print as theorbo pieces at all. > > > The publication of the Pieces de Theorbe et de Luth in 1716 > > > suggests that the music previously existed as theorbo music, but > > > it wasn't published in print. Saizenay is dated 1699, but R1575 > > > (and its sister ms.) is considerably earlier, probably. > > > > > You know of any source earlier than 1682? Would you mind sharing? > > Paris BN 1575 and BN 25391 are two theorbo mss. that abound with music > by de Visee. Some concordances with Saizenay, but both mss. > seem to be much earlier than 1699 and earlier than 1680, I'd say. > > > Why? It might well be a written down version of the "core" composition. > > The instrument-specific versions adapt to the resp. instruments range. > > I for one have never heard of such a thing like a core composition, > to be used for instrument-specific adaptations, in the 17th century. > > > But who claimed that? The statement I questioned (and still do) was > > that since the scored version is a forth higher that implies a > > theorbo tuned a forth higher. > > An idea that was positively maintained e. g. by Jose Moreno in the > booklet to his CD with music by de Visee. I agree with you in doubting it. > > Mathias > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- R. Mattes - Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de
