The cover of this Ms has:
BIBLIOTHEQUE NATIONALE
PARIS
---------------
DEPARTMENT
DE LA MUSIQUE
Res - 1106
en entier
R1575
(41035)
/Rap 9/
I've had my copy for many years now so don't recall it's precise source
but may have been a microfilm from BN Paris. I've also now copied my
recent email to the Baroque Lute list referencing R1575 to the Lute
List
MH
--- On Fri, 12/8/11, David Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
From: David Smith <[email protected]>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo
To: "'R. Mattes'" <[email protected]>, "'Mathias Roesel'"
<[email protected]>, [email protected]
Date: Friday, 12 August, 2011, 17:02
Searching at the BnF catalog
[1]http://catalogue.bnf.fr/jsp/recherchemots_simple.jsp?nouvelleRecherc
he=O&nou
veaute=O&host=catalogue I see no results that match 1575 or 25391.
Any suggestions on finding them or help in clarifying what the numbers
refer
to?
Regards
David
-----Original Message-----
From: R. Mattes [mailto:[2][email protected]]
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 12:42 AM
To: David Smith; 'Mathias Roesel'; [3][email protected]
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for theorbo
On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:57:08 -0700, David Smith wrote
> Excuse me for what may be a stupid question but which manuscripts are
> Paris BN 1575 and BN 25391? I have tried to search for these using
> Google with no success. Where are they located, names, and are they
> available?
Sorry, I'm far away from my reference works, but I think these would be
F-BN
.., meaning "France, Bibliotheque National ..."
HTH Ralf Mattes
> Regards
> David Smith
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [4][email protected]
[mailto:[5][email protected]]
> On Behalf Of Mathias Roesel Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2011 2:46 PM
> To: [6][email protected] Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute Strings for
theorbo
>
> > I would object to the idea that some version is a "rewrite" of
> > another version. I take all three version
> > (guitar/theorbo/score) as renderings of the same compositional
idea.
>
> A bit more than that, no? Exact transpositions of the same pieces,
I'd
> say. Perhaps we won't be able to tell which was first (as in
Lessing's
> Ring Parable), but it's pretty clear that one _was_ first and the
> others are adaptations.
>
> > > These pieces were not published in print as theorbo pieces at
all.
> > > The publication of the Pieces de Theorbe et de Luth in 1716
> > > suggests that the music previously existed as theorbo music, but
> > > it wasn't published in print. Saizenay is dated 1699, but R1575
> > > (and its sister ms.) is considerably earlier, probably.
> > >
> > You know of any source earlier than 1682? Would you mind sharing?
>
> Paris BN 1575 and BN 25391 are two theorbo mss. that abound with
music
> by de Visee. Some concordances with Saizenay, but both mss.
> seem to be much earlier than 1699 and earlier than 1680, I'd say.
>
> > Why? It might well be a written down version of the "core"
composition.
> > The instrument-specific versions adapt to the resp. instruments
range.
>
> I for one have never heard of such a thing like a core composition,
> to be used for instrument-specific adaptations, in the 17th century.
>
> > But who claimed that? The statement I questioned (and still do) was
> > that since the scored version is a forth higher that implies a
> > theorbo tuned a forth higher.
>
> An idea that was positively maintained e. g. by Jose Moreno in the
> booklet to his CD with music by de Visee. I agree with you in
doubting it.
>
> Mathias
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
R. Mattes -
Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg
[8][email protected]
--
References
1.
http://catalogue.bnf.fr/jsp/recherchemots_simple.jsp?nouvelleRecherche=O&nou
2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
5. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
6. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]
