"Kapsberger used a wire strung theorbo..."
Apples and oranges. Monofilament wire string technology, used in musical
instruments, goes way back- predating the Renaissance, maybe 13th
century (best I can remember off the top of my head). Nothing to do with
the idea of thin wire overwound on a gut or silk core. Merely citing the
fact of non-gut string use does nothing to extend our knowledge of the
existence of wire wounds back to to anytime earlier than the already
known sources.
"On 29/11/2012 15:32, William Samson wrote:
Interesting point Martin. Both you and Martyn have suggested that if
much lower tensions were used in the basses than we use today, that
could be the answer without conjectural winding or loading. I think
the proof of the pudding would be in the trying out of this
possibility. Has anybody strung a 9c in this way? Does it play in
tune - particularly when notes are stopped?
If I'm interpreting correctly what I see on Arto's String Calculator,
with aA5 and a string stop of 63cm (which would just about allow a gut
chanterelle to be tuned to g) the tension of the 9th course tuned to
C with a 1.4mm dia gut string would be about 1.2kg. It's certainly
low
by present day standards, but is it unfeasibly low?"
As to how light a tension can be used by the performer, the lightest I
have heard about are Toyohiko Satoh's recommendations from 2009. As a
player of impeccable credentials & repute in this field, working &
recording with actual historic instruments, and in close contact with
Mimmo Peruffo, the fruit- so far- of his research is of special value &
should carry a bit of weight.. In his tables of string tensions ranging
from 6 course lute up to archlute the lightest working tensions he comes
up with are in the 2.1 kg. area- the very lightest being the 1.95 high
octave strings on courses 5 & 6 for his six course lute. My own
stringing, by necessity needing to work with certainly less sensitive
instruments than Satoh's, (and played by less sensitive performer!),
have to be a touch heavier- but not much. Paradoxically, I do get away
with much lighter tension on my archlute diapasons. "Your mileage may vary".
Dan
On 11/28/2012 11:43 AM, Shaun Ng wrote:
Dear Martyn,
Thanks for these sources. I don't think they were making it up, but I do find
the Playford source questionable, being an advertisement. I know this sounds
nitpicky, but all it says is 'silver wire' on string is the new invention. It
doesn't say what came before. Kapsberger used a wire strung theorbo, if I
remember rightly, and it predates both these sources, so that's at least
evidence of non gut string use.
But then what is the explanation for thin bass strings on lutes? For loaded
strings, what is the evidence that one would expect to find?
Shaun Ng
On 29/11/2012, at 2:02, Martyn Hodgson<[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Shaun,
When you write 'The better explanation for seemingly thin, coloured
strings on the basses of lutes.......', what do you mean by
'better''?: - better in relation to the historical evidence (if so
precisely what)?; better for modern ears?; better for the cost?; better
than currently available coloured /loaded strings?; better than what?
And why would we wish to ignore clear iconographic evidence (eg the
numerous paintings) and the historical record (eg wound strings were
new in the 1660s: Hartlib papers 1659 "Goretsky hath an invention of
lute strings covered with silver wyer, or strings which make a most
admirable musick. Mr Boyle. [...] "String of guts done about with
silver wyer makes a very sweet musick, being of Goretskys invention")
and 1664 John Playford: "An Introduction to the Skill of Musik...":
There is a late invention of strings...... it is a small wire twisted
or gimp'd upon a gut string or silk...". Were they making it up as
being a new invention?
MH
--- On Wed, 28/11/12, Shaun Ng<[email protected]> wrote:
From: Shaun Ng<[email protected]>
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Are Pistoys prone to rot according to Mace?
To: "<[email protected]>"<[email protected]>
Cc: "<[email protected]>"<[email protected]>
Date: Wednesday, 28 November, 2012, 0:45
Just a short comment: I recently did some research on historical
stringing and in regards to pistoy loaded strings, there is no
evidence. The better explanation for seemingly thin, coloured strings
on the basses of lutes is wound strings. At least we know such a
technology existed, even though their mention mostly comes a bit too
late when we compare paintings of the time, which is not a good way to
get credible information about musical instruments anyway.
Shaun Ng
0426240 775 | [1][email protected] | shaunng.blogspot.com
On 28/11/2012, at 5:35,<[2][email protected]> wrote:
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