Dear Ron, > Am 06.03.2019 um 13:59 schrieb Ron Andrico <praelu...@hotmail.com>: > > Perhaps the mis-remembered quotation is a conflation of Besard and > Vallet, who recommended thumb-index for fast passages. Nevertheless, > music from around 1600 forward in time should be played with the thumb > out if we are to follow the written advice and the iconography. I > still see far too may baroque lute and theorbo players using > thumb-under, which is patently absurd given both the historical > precedent and the physical layout of extended bass instruments. Isn't > it about time lute players moved forward from the guitarist versus > lutenist nonsense from the 1970s and played according to actual > historical examples?
Thatâs exactly the goal of our summer course in Chiavenna (with Paul Beier, Vinicius Perez and me): - Understanding historical lute techniques - Reading original sources and understanding the kinds of information found in them - Establishing a repertoire illustrative of historical techniques - Studying original lutes and lute construction (with Klaus Jacobsen) - Developing an awareness of our goals as musicians See here: http://www.musico.it/chiavennabaroque/ Itâs really time to change something. Andreas > __________________________________________________________________ > > From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on behalf > of Martin Shepherd <mar...@luteshop.co.uk> > Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2019 8:23 AM > To: Lute List > Subject: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky > > Dear All, > Just from memory - Besard insists on thumb-out technique as being the > best, but allows that people with short thumbs may find thumb-inside > easier. I find it inconceivable that he would change hand position > during a piece, and see no reason why you should not use thumb-index > alternation in fast runs with thumb out - flamenco guitarists do it all > the time. > The fingering dots in the ML lute book (c.1640) give an interesting > indication of this. In Dowland's fantasia (Poulton 1, ML ff.14v-15r) > all runs are marked to be played middle-index, except where a running > passage has infrequent bass notes (f.15, second system) which have no > double dots (meaning middle), so presumably to be be played > thumb-index. Once the bass notes become more frequent (and the speed > of the treble movement stays the same, 3rd and 4th systems) the > middle-index alternation returns. Then a fast cadential formula (end > of > system 5) lacks any double dots and is therefore thumb-index. > I'm sure there are many other examples like this. Nigel North's recent > talk at the Lute Society gave many interesting examples of RH > fingerings. > Martin > On 06/03/2019 08:06, jo.lued...@t-online.de wrote: >> Sorry: 'original', naturally! >> >> Gesendet von meinem BlackBerry 10-Smartphone. >> Originalnachricht >> Von: jo.lued...@t-online.de >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. März 2019 07:49 >> An: Lute net >> Antwort an: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky >> >> >> Dear Alan, dear Jurgen, >> >> There is something to that effect in all 'oroginal' versions of > Besard's instructions, that is: 1603 and 1617. I do not remember if ye > text englished contains the passage... >> >> Best >> >> Joachim >> >> >> Originalnachricht >> Von: Alain Veylit >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. März 2019 04:32 >> Antwort an: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu >> Cc: Lute net >> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky >> >> >> Jurgen, >> >> It's been a while and I was quoting from memory... but I am sure I > saw >> it somewhere - perhaps the instructions translated in English in the >> Varietie of Lute Lessons? >> >> Or maybe the use of dots in Thesaurus Harmonicus ... >> >> Alain >> >> On 3/4/19 11:11 PM, Jurgen Frenz wrote: >>> It would be totally excellent if you'd find out where Besard made > that suggestion. >>> Thanks, >>> jurgen >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------- >>> "There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen." >>> >>> JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi >>> >>> âââââââ Original Message âââââââ. >>> On Tuesday, March 5, 2019 10:40 AM, Alain Veylit > <al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote: >>> >>>> That's odd because I remember O'Dette's advice for the left-hand > pinky: >>>> plant it vertically on the string instead of laying it flat - which >>>> requires more effort. That should mean his left-hand little finger > can >>>> bend... Not a conclusive proof for the right hand little finger but > ... >>>> For Renaissance lute, if I am not mistaken, the right-hand little > finger >>>> is supposed to be parallel to the sound board, just lightly > brushing on >>>> it, and it should remain extended. >>>> >>>> Anybody with a good explanation as to how additional basses would > alter >>>> the right hand position? If I recall, Besard still argued for a > mixed >>>> technique, thumb-under for fast runs and thumb over for whatever > else >>>> (chords). I think it is logical that increasing dedication of the > thumb >>>> to the bass strings does account for the shift in right-hand > position, >>>> and when you think about it, it is not a small revolution in music >>>> history... >>>> >>>> On 3/4/19 7:12 PM, Richard Brook wrote: >>>> >>>>> Heard via the late great Pat OBrien Paul O'Dette couldn't bend > that finger down by itself. Though I think Pat said in my case the > fault was in my head, not in the stars. >>>>> D ick Brook >>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 4, 2019, at 6:58 PM, Alain Veylit > al...@musickshandmade.com wrote: >>>>>> Good one Rainer - Anybody remembers the title of that American > series from the 60s-70s where aliens live among us in disguise, and the > only sure way to identify them is that they cannot bend their little > finger? >>>>>> Worth mentioning also about right-hand technique, Jimmy Hendrix > playing with his teeth - frustrated leftie, you think? >>>>>> On 3/4/19 12:19 PM, Rainer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 04.03.2019 17:11, Alain Veylit wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And then, there is Django Reinhardt... one big exception to the > rules of guitar playing. Experimenting with various techniques has > probably always been a popular habit among musicians, whether by choice > or force. >>>>>>> And Aguado used the 4th finger of the right hand. Perhaps he was > an alien :) >>>>>>> Rainer >>>>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>>>>>> [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> >> >> >> > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > [2]https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > References > > 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 2. https://www.avast.com/antivirus > Andreas Schlegel Eckstr. 6 CH-5737 Menziken Festnetz +41 (0)62 771 47 07 Mobile +41 (0)78 646 87 63 lute.cor...@sunrise.ch --
