On 02/14/2018 09:03 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 19:35:04 -0800
Daniel Kian Mc Kiernan <daniel....@oeconomist.com> wrote:

On 02/14/2018 06:43 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:30:13 -0800
Mc Kiernan Daniel Kian <mc_kier...@oeconomist.com> wrote:
I've an article, prepared in LyX, whose citations and
bibliography I need to have rendered in Chicago style.  (Indeed,
If I can get the sections titles &c to conform automatically to
Chicago-journal style, that would be great.)

I'd like to avoid a process of tweaking a .tex file.

When I try to handl things by way of the preamble, LyX yowls
about conflicting specifications.  If I have to do everything
through the preamble or by tweaking a .tex file, then I'd like
to know how to disable the build-in Bibliography processing.
On 02/14/2018 03:11 AM, Dr Eberhard Lisse wrote:

As a general rule,

provide a Minimal Working Example, ie the shortest LyX file with
the shortest BIB file that demonstrates the issue.

greetings, el

On 14/02/2018 02:13, Daniel Kian Mc Kiernan wrote:

That is a signally absurd response.

A minimal example would be an empty LyX document.  I could show
you a screen-shot of an empty preamble, but you presumably know
how that looks.  Likewise for the Bibliography dialog.

I could go a bit further, and post a bibtex file, and a LyX
document with a cite element and bibligraphy element, and ask
“What do I do to get LyX to render that cite element and the
bibliogrpahy in Chicago style?”  But, again, you presumably know
how bibtex files, cite elements, and bibliography elements look.

So far, I've seen you post one willfully passive-aggressive
response to one person, and then this foolish response to me.
This list begins to look to be a source of abuse, rather than
constructive response.

I've rearranged the thread as bottom posted, so when somebody says
"this" is absurd, we all know what "this" refers to, and when
someone recommends a minimum working example, we all know what
situation a MWE is supposed to improve. If we're going to criticize
communication styles, let's go for clarity ourselves.

Anyway, regardless of Eberhard Lisse's tone, the Minimum Working
Example (MWE) is one of your most powerful tools for diagnosing LyX
problems. Remember, he said " ie the shortest LyX file with the
shortest BIB file that ***demonstrates the issue***." (emphasis

If the issue occurs on a blank document, start removing stuff from
the document properties. At some point you're going to be able to
toggle the problem on and off. Then, keep removing more stuff until
the only stuff left is stuff that will toggle the problem. This is
a true MWE.

Once you have your true MWE, either the cause will be obvious to you
and you'll fix it, or you can submit it and it will be obvious to
your fellow listmates, or the LyX developers will tell you "whoops,
that's a bug, let us fix that, and thank you so much for narrowing
it down for us."

The way I make MWEs is I keep dividing the remaining root cause
scope of the document in half and seeing whether the symptom is
still there, and continue until all that's left is maybe a sentence
plus what is necessary to produce the symptom. Likewise, I keep
simplifying the document preamble/properties until there's nothing
there that won't flip the symptom  if I remove/change it.

A year ago I has a problem in which I couldn't produce my books on
my new Void Linux computer if I used Century Schoolbook type, which
is a must. Even a Minimal Working Example would fail if I used
Century Schoolbook. So for LyX had I had to use a Ubuntu virtual
machine guest: Inconvenient!

Then one day a fellow author let me read his LyX produced book,
which obviously had Century Schoolbook type. I made an MWE of his,
and MWE of mine, compared, and the difference was obvious: He was
using the TeX Gyre Schola variant


I explained exactly why the request for an MWE was absurd here.  You
didn't actually attend to the explanation.

I understand when and how to use an MWE.  This was not an occasion
for which one made any sense.

If someone asked you how to launch LyX, would you actually tell them
to provide an MWE?  You're about in that territory right now, and a
person who didn't know how to launch LyX wouldn't be as demonstrably
foolish as someone who asked for an MWE of that person, or as someone
who pontificated about the value of MWEs in the face of the present

Fine. You tried it.

"When I try to handl things by way of the preamble,
LyX yowls about conflicting specifications."

Next job: Find out the source of the yowls. I'd use an MWE to narrow it
down, but perhaps you have a different idea.

No, that is not the next job.

Experimenting with the checkboxes, menus, and textfields would be grossly impractical — there are too many possibilities (especially because of those damn'd textfields), and I would be better-off just punting to editing the .tex file and using other programs. You're proposing what amounts to trial-and-error on a multivariate optimization problem with literally many thousands of variables.

If LyX can be configured to effect a rendering of things in Chicago style, it's a matter of understanding the options in the Bibliography dialog. I don't, and the documentation is severely wanting.

But it was-and-is plausible that there were someone on this mailing list who understands the Bibliography options well enough to tell me what boxes to check, which menu options to select, and what to enter into those textfields.

I mentioned the yowlings without so much as quoting them simply to avoid the all-too-common scenario of someone sending me down a path that had already been shown not to work — in this case, simply editing the preamble. The conflict is _not_ between elements entered into the preamble area, but between an element entered there and one effected elsewhere, under control of the Bibliography configuration.

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