Oh, that's funny. That's pretty much the same reason I got my Mac this summer. My Windows desktop really needs to go to the computer happy hunting ground. I'd been interested in a Mac for a while, but hadn't moved on it because I already had a working computer. So when it became clear I was going to have to get a new machine, I figured it didn't make sense to buy a new Windows machine only to switch to a Mac a year later. So I just moved the time-frame up a bit. Now if we just had a decent OCR option on the Mac, I could let my windows machine go to its very well-deserved rest.
Hope you got some sleep. Good to know I'm not the only insomniac on the list. :) Take care, Donna -----Original Message----- From: Maxwell Ivey Jr. <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:49 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: 3 features that hmm? Hi donna; well said. I actually got my first mac because I couldn't figure out which windows computer to replace my last laptop with. We had read that the sound cards need to be a 32 bit if not 64 bit to run jaws and other windows features without a strain, and we couldn't find any off the shelf laptops where we could even find out what the sound cards were. And ordering a custom built one would have cost more money than i had to spend. Finally, my brother decided to help me buy a used ibook g4 to get my feet wet. Now, I'm apple all the way. I just wish we could get the flash player and the adobe reader accessible. At least the overdrive media console now has a mac version. I don't see me buying an iphone because I would have to switch cell phone providers, but I'm hopeful the next round of ipod touch will have speech. Then I'd get everything accept for th ephone as long as i was in range of a wifi signal. Should be asleep. take care, Max On Aug 30, 2009, at 3:26 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: > > I completely agree Max. Editing wasn't hard for me to learn, but > web browsing and getting used to where certain things are in the > system has been more of a challenge. And at least five times a day > I still press Enter instead of Command-O to open a file or launch an > app. And conversely, it's also gotten to the point where when I'm on > my Windows machine, I try and press Command-shift-D to send an email > message. I guess that's just the nature of moving back and forth > between two systems. I think the more choices we as blind users > have, the better, and I'd encourage anyone to just find the one that > is the best fit for them. > Take care, > Donna > > -----Original Message----- > From: Maxwell Ivey Jr. <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:44 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: 3 features that hmm? > > > Hi Donna; It could have just been me, but that is the point. there > are people out there who have been doing it one way for so long that > any change can be frustrating. I remember how many times i deleted > the wrong character or inserted a character in the wrong spot and had > to do it over. Now, I'm used to it. And the few times i use the > windows computer I have to remember things like pressing the spacebar > before entering text in a form field. Mac is the way to go. Just > wish we could convince the makers of adobe, flash, eudora, and others > that we can't currently use on the mac. Take care, Max > On Aug 29, 2009, at 10:29 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: > >> >> Well, I guess we all have our things. Ironically, the adjustment to >> editing >> text has been one of the easier parts of my adjustment to the Mac. >> *smile* >> Take care, >> Donna >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey >>> Jr. >>> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 11:16 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: 3 features that hmm? >>> >>> >>> Thanks donna; only wish my transition from doss to windows had been >>> as easy. That was a real mind cramp sort of thing. Take care, Max >>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 10:07 PM, Donna Goodin wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Nice post, Max. >>>> Donna >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [email protected] >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Maxwell Ivey >>>>> Jr. >>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:29 PM >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Subject: Re: 3 features that hmm? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello; Just speaking for myself the hardest adjustment i had to >>> make >>>>> when moving to a mac was getting used to the way you have to edit >>>>> text. Now, that I understand it, it is second nature; but it >>>>> was a >>>>> real headache in the beginning. Another one that was a tough one >>>>> to >>>>> get my mind around was not having multiple windows in my >>>>> browser. I >>>>> finallly found out that you can have multiple finder and safari >>>>> windows you just cycle through them differently. It sounds like >>>>> apple >>>>> was doing its best to listen and adapt to what people were saying >>>>> were >>>>> short comings in voiceover. To me this is a good thing. Maybe >>>>> they >>>>> didn't get this one issue right, but I believe they continually >>>>> make >>>>> an honest effort to give us the most accessible easiest to use >>>>> product >>>>> out there. I'm still planning to wait on snow lepard. You know >>> why? >>>>> Its because of all the times I upgraded in windows and found >>>>> things >>>>> were worse instead of better. Its for all the times I kept using >>> the >>>>> previous version of software out of fear that the next one >>>>> wouldn't >>>>> work with jaws. So, thanks to apple for voiceover and their >>>>> continuing commitment to universal access. You all take care, Max >>>>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Marie Howarth wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> think I did say I was glad of the choice, just sad apple had to >>>>>> accomodate those who find it impossible to edit text in the way >>>>>> it >>>>>> is >>>>>> meant to be edited. they are features that yes, fine they are >>>>>> here >>>>>> now, just weren't really missing in my opinion. If others need >>> their >>>>>> screen reader to hold their hand cool. whatever everyone needs. >>>>>> as >>> I >>>>>> stated, opinion, that's all. everyone's allowed those :) >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 30, 2009, at 1:39 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Come on this is crazy. You just can't imagine the number of >>>>>>> people >>>>>>> who >>>>>>> bitched and complained about this whole editing issue and I >>> believe >>>>>>> Apple was taken to task by one of the rags put out by the NFB or >>>>> some >>>>>>> organization about the editing issue. APparently enough people >>>>>>> complained that Apple was trying to provide the flexibility for >>>>> those >>>>>>> users who need it. Yeah, I am one of the Scotts who made this >>>>>>> point >>>>>>> because I remember clearly the noise about this editing >>>>>>> issue. I >>>>> see >>>>>>> no benefit in removing it and quite frankly since it's here, >>>>> whatever >>>>>>> at this point. If it really helps someone , fine because there >>> are >>>>>>> those who would simply not consider the Mac for this reason. It >>> is >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> option and not a default and that is why it's a feature not >>>>>>> worth >>>>>>> removing. My point is you have to think beyond what you have >>> stated >>>>>>> and I don't entirely disagree with your point of what is or is >>>>>>> not a >>>>>>> standard way of editing etc. At the same time, it obviously >>> didn't >>>>>>> take a great deal of effort to implement it and at least it is >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> option. >>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also just my oppinion, but I disagree about points 1 and 2. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can't say I ever have used feature numero uno in any OS as >>>>>>>> there >>>>> are >>>>>>>> so few webpages I'd actually want to read 100% of their >>>>>>>> content, >>>>> but >>>>>>>> someone somewhere will find it useful. You could argue that >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> reading webpages automatically is as close as Apple could get >>>>>>>> to >>> a >>>>>>>> sighted person glancing at the screen when the page comes up >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> taking in the bigger picture, which we can't do. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Voiceover hints are definitely useful and a good thing. >>>>>>>> Context >>>>>>>> sensitive help like that enables most people to be on a way >>>>>>>> shorter >>>>>>>> learning curve usually than reading a whole manual and trying >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> apply >>>>>>>> things to a ton of situations at once. It's annoying that >>> they're >>>>>>>> enabled by default for you or I perhaps, but newbies are going >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> thank Apple for it no doubt. Come to that, so will developers >>> who >>>>>>>> fire up VO for the first time when they receive a disgruntled >>>>>>>> email >>>>>>>> from someone who's asking them to make adjustments to their >>>>>>>> applications. It'll instantly demonstrate to them the >>>>>>>> difference >>>>>>>> between what works and what doesn't, it gives them instructions >>>>>>>> equally as precise as that email from the VI user would in most >>>>>>>> cases. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wholeheartedly agreed about point 3 though. I just don't get >>> this >>>>>>>> one. You also hit the nail right on the head with the reason >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> option shouldn't exist, it modifies a standard that doesn't in >>> any >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>> need to be modified, purely because of some VI people's rut >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> they're firmly jammed into. To add weight to a big sweeping >>>>>>>> oppinion >>>>>>>> like that, I should say that I was raised on Windows, still use >>>>>>>> Windows more often than many on here I expect, and I make my >>>>>>>> fair >>>>>>>> share of mistakes editing in Mac OS if I haven't done any in a >>>>>>>> while. >>>>>>>> I don't see this option as the solution, I see it as >>>>>>>> cheating. I >>>>>>>> doubt that many people will see this as an option to ease their >>>>>>>> progression into Mac OS as one of the other Scott's suggested, >>>>>>>> human's >>>>>>>> just don't work that way, for the most part we're creatures of >>>>> habit >>>>>>>> even if they're bad ones. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Tricky one though isn't it. Emailing Apple and asking that a >>>>>>>> feature >>>>>>>> be removed seems somehow wrong in my mind. In any case, I'm >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>> they'd get it. I just tried to explain why I disagree with the >>>>>>>> feature and what's potentially at stake here to a sighted mac >>>>>>>> user, >>>>>>>> and she point blank didn't get it. I'm not sure that anyone >>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>> hasn't had to appreciate how cool mainstream technology that >>> works >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us out of the box would, even Apple themselves might not, they >>>>>>>> probably see the introduction of this feature as the best thing >>>>> they >>>>>>>> could've done to silence a lot of whinging lol. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just my 2 cents, or perhaps pennies worth for those on this >>>>>>>> side >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the pond... >>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 8/29/09, Scott Howell <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well good for you, I'm glad you did not need these features >>>>>>>>> and >>>>> you >>>>>>>>> learned the way we all started out. However, of course the >>>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>>> plus >>>>>>>>> side is that for those who want to make the transition and >>> really >>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>> what we "grew up with" difficult, will at least have a way to >>>>>>>>> ease >>>>>>>>> their transition over from the dark side. :) So, I agree with >>>>> you, >>>>>>>>> but these are small prices to pay if it will truly help >>>>>>>>> someone >>>>>>>>> make >>>>>>>>> the transition. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Marie Howarth wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> well, this is purely my opinion but 3 features that horribly >>>>>>>>>> remind me >>>>>>>>>> of windows are as follows. >>>>>>>>>> 1. automatic reading of a webpage. >>>>>>>>>> 2. voice over hints. I know what to do in a text area, >>>>>>>>>> especially >>>>>>>>>> when >>>>>>>>>> it already says edit text. >>>>>>>>>> 3. insertion point. this has been discussed, it's counter >>>>>>>>>> intuitive >>>>>>>>>> and doesn't teach the vi community how it would look to >>>>>>>>>> sighties. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> all I can say is I'm so glad these features are optional. >>>>>>>>>> they >>>>> are >>>>>>>>>> just horrific and no one can tell me that it will help >>>>> progression >>>>>>>>>> from windows to mac. I didn't have these features and I am so >>>>>>>>>> glad I >>>>>>>>>> did. mac is not windows, when will people realise this. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> overall vo rocks even more in this version, and I am grateful >>> to >>>>>>>>>> apple >>>>>>>>>> for giving us a choice. really glad. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2333 - Release Date: >>>>> 08/29/09 17:51:00 >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.71/2333 - Release Date: >>> 08/29/09 17:51:00 >> >> >>> > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
