That's my theory as well, if I can get my little turbo engine singing to the tune of 260-300 hp at the flywheel, I'm sure with a bit of chassis tuning I can end up with a real weapon! I wouldn't mind stiffening it up a bit first though!
Daniel Kroehn ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Clough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 9:21 PM Subject: Re: suspension questions > Terry > Good to get some of your practical experience on what to play with and the > results it gives. Interesting that you didn't mention once the need for > more power! I have found that on circuits, hillclimbs and for fast road use > there's much more to be gained from "body tuning" than engine tuning, even > rallying, assuming of course you have a reasonable engine to begin with. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Rudd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, 31 October 2002 1:56 AM > Subject: RE: suspension questions > > > > Richard, > > > > For a 1600 you're on the money, except it's not always the back that's too > > soft. Running fronts too hard relative to the rears and I'm talking > overall > > spring/damper rates here, locked diffs and anti-roll bar settings etc can > > amount to a substantial difference in lap times - especially tight > circuits > > like our beloved Wakefield Park but the theory still applies to more open > > tracks like the Creek or Oran Park. Also we found was tyre radius made a > > huge difference to mid corner speeds resulting in more neutral handling > i.e. > > throttle steer/response etc was much easier to control (locked diff had a > > lot to do with it), you may recall my conversations with Mark Alford on > this > > subject. One free practice day we had a serious play with the Sport Sedan > > (FJ20) with setup in just these areas at the Park and came away 3" a lap > > quicker - best lap 1.12" something on the old course which was pretty good > > back then and until we sold it we never improved those times - a local > well > > developed and known ex Seaton Ford was doing 1.11's the same day we were > > there. The good 3 litre Sports Sedans lap Eastern Creek inside 5 seconds > of > > a V8 Supercar and not too far behind the Conica boys - not too bad for an > > old rally beater. We were also able to match the DR30's at the Park (they > > were not happy to have 1600's showing up their expensive toys either, > > problem was we could get beside them but couldn't out brake them with > their > > 4 spot Nismo anchors but we blew the Cosworth Pescorts, Celica turbos and > > most Mazda 13B's into the weeds (-:) - the main gains we found were from > > reducing front spring rates slightly from 200# to 175# (-1.5"/lap) and > wheel > > size up to 14" (-1"/lap) and reducing rear role rate to zero (-0.5"/lap) > on > > 1/2 fuel load. We ran 800# rear springs with TRD shocks (adjustable), the > > fronts weren't adjustable but we could change over both the complete units > > in under 10 minutes - quicker than a diff change. We tried one of our dirt > > setups at Wakefield once as we had gone over to compete on the old dirt > > hillclimb which Ben Smoker (co-owner won on the day) - but sadly I put it > > into the wall on the corner leading onto the main straight bum first and > > that was the end of that for the day - very embarrassing that and we never > > tried anything so stupid again. > > > > regards > > Terry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:membersozdat_owner@;datascribe.com.au]On Behalf Of Richard Clough > > Sent: Wednesday, 30 October 2002 9:58 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: suspension questions > > > > > > Cam > > If you are lifting inside wheels its usually because the springs are too > > soft on the opposite "axle". If it lifts a front, the rears are too soft > > and vice versa. This would also explain the loss of traction. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Cam McKinnon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, 29 October 2002 23:09 PM > > Subject: Re: suspension questions > > > > > > > It's interesting too hear about the rear bar....I think from memory TR > > > suggests the same thing i.e. don't use one. > > > > > > Re the koni's, they were just off the shelf, but as an indication at > full > > > hard setting (rebound) were I have them set at the moment, they are that > > > stiff that it takes a couple of minutes just too pull them out by hand > so > > > you can bolt them to the A arm. > > > > > > I'm starting to think that I've over-tightened the shock settings and as > > the > > > body rolls on a corner and lifts the inside wheel, the shock is holding > > that > > > inside wheel up off the ground taking away my precious traction. > > > > > > It was quite sickening to see a AU XR6 (admittedly a full-on Procar GTP > > > production race-car) rip car-lengths out of me in the corners .....lucky > > the > > > ol' datto had the legs in the straights to rip a dozen car lengths back > > out > > > of him :)) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Cam > > > CM510 > > > www.sprite.com.au/cm510 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mark Alford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 10:30 PM > > > Subject: Re: suspension questions > > > > > > > > > > Cam, > > > > > > > > I agree with you - the rear end of the 1600 is very difficult to > set-up, > > > > that's a big part of the reason why I am now building the Sunny (as a > > race > > > > car), the live rear end is easier to get right - plus it should be at > > > least > > > > 60-80kg's lighter :)) > > > > > > > > In regars to the konis - have you had them valved to suit the springs? > I > > > was > > > > running 800 pound springs in my 1600, and only had them set to half a > > turn > > > > (Koni Yellow's) from full soft - but they were revalved from new to > suit > > > the > > > > springs. > > > > > > > > The wheel alignment settings are simialr to what I ran. I was running > 1 > > > > degree neg camber at rest with zero toe - so that should be pretty > > right - > > > > but I was only running a naturally aspirated FJ - so no where near the > > > > horsepower you are trying to put down (another reason for the sunny - > > this > > > > time we are FJ turbo - with plenty of mods) > > > > > > > > Another thing you could try is no rear bar at all. I know this sounds > > odd > > > > but I tried it at the last race meeting I ran at Eastern creek. I was > > only > > > > running a soft bar to begin with, but when I dropped the bar off, I > > picked > > > > up just over 1.5 seconds a lap! This was done on the same day, same > > > weather > > > > conditions, same tyre pressures, same shock settings. Only difference > > was > > > > the rear bar was removed. I think it allowed the back end to be a > little > > > > more compliant with the road - it was certainly a softer set up. > > > > > > > > I would be wary of going to soft with the springs, it's only going to > > > induce > > > > more squat = more camber = more wheel spin. > > > > > > > > I actually changed the pick up points on my swing arms, then added > > > eccentric > > > > (spelling???) bushes for adjustment of camber and toe. But at the end > of > > > the > > > > day, my setting were similar to yours so it shouldn't make much > > > difference. > > > > > > > > It was hard to set up the rear end with a naturally aspirated FJ - I > > don't > > > > envy you trying to do it with the horsepower you have - goodluck. > > > > > > > > > > > > MArk. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Cam McKinnon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 11:31 PM > > > > Subject: Re: suspension questions > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think about he rear suspension Mark? > > > > > > > > > > I'm just about over the arse end of a 1600, IMHO a big handicap on > the > > > > race > > > > > track. > > > > > > > > > > I have 800lb rears with the koni's screwed up as hard as they will > go > > > with > > > > > say .75 deg neg camber and zero toe and mid setting rear bar. (with > > > locked > > > > > R3.9 and decent 225/50/15 Rspec bags) > > > > > > > > > > At any point other than straight ahead it's wheel spin city from the > > > > moment > > > > > of any power application. As you'd know if you are spinning....they > > are > > > > > winning. > > > > > > > > > > I'm thinking of going back to a softer rear spring and shock with a > > > firmer > > > > > rear bar, > > > > > > > > > > Ideas?? > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Cam > > > > > CM510 > > > > > www.sprite.com.au/cm510 > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Mark Alford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 11:21 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: suspension questions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robbie, > > > > > > > > > > > > Before you go forking out a load of hard earned money - take the > car > > > to > > > > a > > > > > > good wheel alignment guy. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would suggest looking at your alignmet settings prior to > changing > > > > > > components. If you still use the car as a daily driver, anything > you > > > do > > > > > will > > > > > > be a comprimise, but I would be aiming for loads of positive > castor > > (5 > > > > > > degrees if you can get it - but this will make the steering quite > > > quite > > > > > > heavy) and up to 4.5 degrees negative camber (no good for the > street > > > > > > though - so adjustable strut tops could be a good option, depends > > how > > > > > > serious you want to get.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Of course your ride height and quality of components like shocks > > will > > > > come > > > > > > into play - but it would be interesting to find out what your > wheel > > > > > > alignment settings are right now before you make any adjustments. > At > > > > > > leastthen you will know what adjustments are working and what > > > > adjustments > > > > > > have little or no effect. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark. > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Robbie vidler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 4:45 PM > > > > > > Subject: suspension questions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > had my first hill climb in my 1975 datsun 180b SSS on sunday... > > the > > > > car > > > > > > got > > > > > > > around in an ok time despite handling like a dog ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it was understeering big time when i thought i'd have trouble > > > keeping > > > > it > > > > > > > from over steering, however it rarely let go of the rear end. > > > > > > > the front springs are to soft and the whole car in my opinion > sits > > > to > > > > > > high. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i am wondering how much lower then standard can i go 2.5" or 3". > > the > > > > car > > > > > > has > > > > > > > unknown front shocks and munroe adjustables on the rear, i don't > > > know > > > > > hwo > > > > > > to > > > > > > > adjust them though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after a suspension inspection these items were suggested. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rh inner tie rod end > > > > > > > lower inners > > > > > > > radius rod bushes > > > > > > > lh lower ball joint > > > > > > > idler arm > > > > > > > rear lower arm bushes > > > > > > > rear shocks > > > > > > > quote > > > > > > > $1000 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this sounded a little excessive to me, and the rear shocks > appear > > ok > > > > to > > > > > > me? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i'm wondering which of these things i could do myself and what > > else > > > > > could > > > > > > i > > > > > > > do to make the car more determined to turn in? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thanks robbie. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --membersozdat------------------------------------------------------- OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:- Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] No unauthorised redistribution of this email http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html http://www.mail-archive.com/membersozdat@;datascribe.com.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------
