Strange that you two link Fortuna to Vam's anger outcome. Minerva/ Athena's overall doings would have come closer to my mind.
On 10 Jan., 16:08, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > I think what Vam is saying is that an expression of anger can be a > useful tool in establishing distance and removing unwanted behavior of > others from your immediate experience. << Molly > > I could eat a lot of garlic and breathe on people to accomplish that > without having to resort to a anger facade. Perhaps anger can be a > useful tool for specific outcomes but it ranks low on the list of > options. There is always the option of retreat in the face of > adversity. As you say, when all else fails. Unfortunately for some, > anger is the first option. > > On Jan 10, 8:06 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > I have found that not everyone responds to love. Unfortunately. I > > think what Vam is saying is that an expression of anger can be a > > useful tool in establishing distance and removing unwanted behavior of > > others from your immediate experience. I will admit, when all else > > fails, I will resort to an angry response and am amazed at how it gets > > the job done. I do, always, as Slip says, regret that an expression > > of love was not able to resolve the issue. I always feel better that > > way. These angry responses usually have other long term consequences, > > as anger is always a barrier to communication and relationship. > > > But this choosing anger as a response when loving means have failed is > > quite different than angry reactions. There is also the danger of > > overusing the angry response because it is expedient, and not > > exploring other options. If you can't be bothered with giving > > anything other than an angry response, you are actually having an > > angry reaction, and are probably developing that addiction to anger. > > > All that being said, I also think that somewhere along the line, we > > need to completely feel our angry voice and know that we are free to > > express it, before we can choose to not express it and give the loving > > response. This paradoxical process keeps us from acruing shadow, and > > repressing those parts of ourselves that may be deemed inappropriate, > > just because of the fear of not being appropriate (whatever that is.) > > Like the warrior, who knows he can deal the fatal blow, but chooses > > not to - we all have peaceful warriors within us that we need to fully > > own. To do this, we must first know the warrior. > > > On Jan 10, 6:53 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Yet but another riddle. I concede my riddle proficiency is lacking. > > > Perhaps you can expand, but then again riddles usually fall apart when > > > expanded and no longer qualify as one. How exactly does anger keep > > > someone from blowing cigarette smoke in the face of a woman and child > > > on the street? I find love more fruitful than anger and I'm sure that > > > love can as well keep someone from blowing cigarette smoke in my face, > > > so I would opt to resort to love over anger which is a detriment to my > > > well being. > > > > On Jan 9, 10:15 pm, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > No, SD, it isn't just that. Anger can be fruitful. It saves the woman > > > > and the child in the street, or yourself from someone blowing > > > > cigarette smoke in your face ! > > > > > On Jan 9, 10:02 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Slip is, of course, right and wrong at the same time > > > > > about the fruitlessness of anger - other posts show he is well aware > > > > > of this. There is always the return of desire and no doubt this would > > > > > be less important if we were really more tolerant. <<archy > > > > > > For the wrong part I'm assuming you mean for those individuals who > > > > > derive a great sense of accomplishment from their actions based on > > > > > their anger in which case it is assumed that their anger was > > > > > fruitful. Considering the ramifications of their anger beyond that of > > > > > their own personal life, I would still contend that it was not > > > > > fruitful as others had to suffer the consequences of their anger. ie; > > > > > suicide bomber. > > > > > There must be a differentiating line between individual and group > > > > > perspective concerning anger. > > > > > > On Jan 9, 4:49 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I came across an old tome whilst preparing to decorate a bedroom. > > > > > > (Leemings, Joseph (1953) Riddles, Riddles, Riddles, New York: > > > > > > Franklin > > > > > > Watts, Inc.) > > > > > > > What does a man love more than life? > > > > > > Hate more than death or mortal strife? > > > > > > That which contented men desire, > > > > > > The poor have, the rich require, > > > > > > The miser spends, the spendthrift saves, > > > > > > And all men carry to their graves? > > > > > > (Leemings, 1953, 201) > > > > > > > The answer, Nothing, can only be seen through a kaleidoscope of > > > > > > equivocations. > > > > > > > There was a time when I thought anger and the kind of message the > > > > > > poem > > > > > > can give were to be avoided because they would lead to > > > > > > bamboozlement - > > > > > > now I think feelings and riddles can help us avoid the worst of cold > > > > > > rhetoric and what that hides. Of course, anger (and other emotions) > > > > > > in the hands of violent idiots and so on, or the spin doctor, are > > > > > > not > > > > > > the answer. Slip is, of course, right and wrong at the same time > > > > > > about the fruitlessness of anger - other posts show he is well aware > > > > > > of this. There is always the return of desire and no doubt this > > > > > > would > > > > > > be less important if we were really more tolerant. > > > > > > > On 8 Jan, 16:46, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I find that much anger is a first reaction to a negative action, > > > > > > > whether self induced or externally sourced. We can make a wrong > > > > > > > decision that results in a negative outcome which displeases us > > > > > > > to the > > > > > > > point of anger or someone else can do something to bring about the > > > > > > > anger. Either way there is a point where the anger can be > > > > > > > identified > > > > > > > and controlled before it actually takes place. It is at this > > > > > > > point > > > > > > > that we can cancel the outward expression of the anger and > > > > > > > accept the > > > > > > > cause, while at the same time making mental note of it. This is > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > others notice and may state, "I thought you would blow your top > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > it, what happened". The anger was pre-diagnosed and canceled. > > > > > > > It is very rare that someone will act out in anger when the anger > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > been pre-diagnosed, ie; "If he does that I'm going to get really > > > > > > > mad". In this case the recipient of the negative action has > > > > > > > identified, classified, and is dealing with the anger before it > > > > > > > actually takes place. When the action actually takes place the > > > > > > > recipient confirms it but no longer has to act out the anger > > > > > > > because > > > > > > > it was already subconsciously acted on and there is no longer > > > > > > > need to > > > > > > > react to it. This of course is confined to future anticipatory > > > > > > > angers > > > > > > > which are the easiest to deal with. > > > > > > > Anger that involves past history is not easily disposed of > > > > > > > because it > > > > > > > was remains unresolved in the subconscious. These subconscious > > > > > > > past > > > > > > > history angers need to be processed. My personally means of > > > > > > > process as > > > > > > > I stated above involves the use of a camera film which becomes > > > > > > > analogous with the life experience. I look at the batch of > > > > > > > photos, > > > > > > > put them in the shoe box and put it away on a shelf in the garage. > > > > > > > Gone are the memories, gone are the angers. A first reaction may > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > anger but later it can be humorous. We must realize the > > > > > > > fruitlessness > > > > > > > of anger and it's detrimental consequence. > > > > > > > Another method I use is the verbal repetition of the negative > > > > > > > action. > > > > > > > ie; Friend tells you "Bob took the keys to your car a smash it > > > > > > > into a > > > > > > > pole", at which time you sit down and repeat several times " Bob > > > > > > > took > > > > > > > the keys to my car and smashed it into a pole". Repeating this > > > > > > > several times delays the reaction time and allows one to create a > > > > > > > visual picture of the incident which then becomes part of the > > > > > > > "processing". There is nothing you can do to change the picture, > > > > > > > ranting, raving and chopping off your finger won't help, so that > > > > > > > leaves continuing the process and letting the action complete it's > > > > > > > cycle. Bob get's arrested, your car get's towed off, and the > > > > > > > insurance company picks up the tab. Eliminating the anger makes > > > > > > > for a > > > > > > > better experience. It is not as easy as it sounds and requires > > > > > > > practice with many levels and degrees of anger, however, starting > > > > > > > off > > > > > > > small can make a difference. Next time you burn something in the > > > > > > > oven > > > > > > > try laughing about it instead of blowing your top. > > > > > > > > On Jan 8, 3:33 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm a bit inclined to think we should be angry with the way of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > world. This is a complex matter though, as one of the tricks of > > > > > > > > establishments is about making us angry so that we make fools of > > > > > > > > ourselves or at least can be made so in their traps. The time > > > > > > > > to do > > > > > > > > what Molly points out directly above is often denied us. > > > > > > > > > On 7 Jan, 18:13, Molly Brogan > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anger is hard to nail down because it is really a secondary > > > > > > > > > emotion, > > > > > > > > > often attached to insecurity, defensiveness, defiance, etc. > > > > > > > > > It can be > > > > > > > > > addictive too, as rage-aholics are all too common. > > > > > > > > > Addictive, because > > > > > > > > > it can be (paradoxically) a more comfortable and predictable > > > > > > > > > emotion > > ... > > Erfahren Sie mehr » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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