On 3 Feb, 12:21, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Slip. I incline to a more traditional, conventional explanatation for
> dreams. I see them primarily as a sorting and organising process for
> our consciousness.A lot of what has happened between two periods of
> sleep has been (temporarily) stored by our brains, not just
> experiences, but feelings, thoughts, memories and memories of
> experiences and memories. Temporary connections have been forged. Our
> consciousness, however, will not retain all of this.
>
> REM-Sleep and dreams are part of the process where consciousness
> structures this and dumps much which will not be retained. Dreams are
> the (more or, more often, less) conscious experiencing of this sorting
> out process.
>
I'm not so sure of that. I remember being awakened from a VERY
DEEP sleep and actually gained waking consciousness BEFORE I was able
to break off from what my mind was doing in the 'deep sleep' process
and I 'caught' my brain going through the days events at break-neck
speed. Whilst going through the day's events, I would decide whether
or not I wanted to remember the event and, if I did, I would associate
it with other memories to give me more than one pathway back to it.
THIS is that processing routine of which you speak and it occurs in
deep sleep not REM. Personally, I think REM sleep and dreams are more
likely a way of spending leisure time when one is asleep (to think
that all our sleep time is work-related (that is, related to processes
that are required for health) would be incorrect). The processes that
are required for reviewing short-term memory and downloading some of
it into medium-term to long-term memory are done without access to
dream-meanderings because, otherwise, they would creep into one's
reality (perhaps schizophrenics aren't able to keep that particular
curtain up??). I think dreams are more us just posing 'what if'
scenarios to ourselves and watching them play out. Of course, there
is more than one kind of dream, as well. Revelatory dreams (dreams in
which we gain verifiable data) are the ones that seemingly break all
the rules and make me thing that we CAN tap into a reservoir of data
(implying that such a reservoir exists) and learn things we otherwise
COULDN'T.
> This is not to deny their importance. Vividly remembered dreams are
> signals about things which are really concerning or preoccupying us,
> in positive as well as negative ways. They can often guide us to
> issues, ideas and feelings which concern us, which are not always
> available or clear to our waking consciousness. But we should be
> careful, in my view, towards ascribing too much meaning to specific
> images or incidents in dreams; they are, by their very nature, a
> higgeldy-piggeldy mixture of all sorts, with many co-incidental
> connections, very like what would happen if I simply dumped out some
> of the drawers I have in my desk, or kitchen, where everything under
> the "to be sorted later" label lands, on the floor. There is then, no
> significance about the fact that a rubber band has wound itself around
> a battery which is lying on a postcard from an old acquaintance, which
> I still hadn't decided to throw away.
>
> Daniel C. Dennett, with his model of multi-draft consciousness, has
> some interesting explanations in his writings on the subject.
>
> On 3 Feb., 10:51, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Good to see you back Frank. Thanks again for the interpretation. Try
> > the one about the river, the snake, the mountain, the room. Molly
> > seemed to have some insight on it. (see below)
>
> > There are strange occurrences in dreams that leave us in a state of
> > awe at times delving deep for interpretation. What usually strikes me
> > most in my dreams are situations that are really bazaar and
> > unaccounted for in consciousness, the people I've never met and the
> > places I've never been. Regardless of the lucidity of dreams, some
> > are obviously very symbolic with unimaginable situations and objects,
> > like flying, clowns and the transformation of inanimate objects to
> > real life beings. I haven't paid much attention to dreams as of late
> > due to a Sciatica attack that has had me on heavy medication for the
> > past two weeks, I feel like I'm in a daze and can't really function
> > well, my equilibrium is imbalanced, my thoughts are fragmented and
> > I've lost continuity of focus.
>
> > Still I value my dreams and try to piece them together. Dreams are
> > not part of the real world but a realm all unto it's own. That is why
> > I hypothesized on quantum dream travel, if it is not happening in my
> > conscious world then it is happening somewhere else. People tend to
> > think of dreams as being weird or strange without the slightest
> > consideration of how strange the world we live in is. I look around
> > and see a world that if represented in someone's dream a thousand
> > years ago, would be considered a very powerful dream, weird and
> > strange. We take for granted the strange world in which we live.
> > Therefore, I must accept the possibility that we are traveling in our
> > dreams to a parallel universe or somewhere here within our own world
> > via the quantum travel theory. How else could I dream of being
> > amongst orientals on a beach with ancient architecture around me,
> > another place in another time?
>
> > I don't know that it would be possible to conduct experiments to
> > establish the viability of such a theory as dreams are still not
> > available to anyone but the dreamer and totally unique to the
> > dreamer's subconscious and unconscious world. I wouldn't say that all
> > dreams are connected to the dreamers reality due to the dreams that I
> > have had where no physical body was present but just a consciousness.
> > In this type of dream I may be connecting to another persons
> > consciousness in their reality, or actually connecting to that persons
> > subconscious dream state and witnessing that persons dream, again
> > regardless of the lucidity of the dream. Remember if you have no way
> > of identifying yourself in your dream then you really don't know for
> > sure that it is your dream. Perhaps I, personally, was not on a
> > beach with orientals but in my dream state I connected with someone
> > who was on the beach with orientals. I wonder sometimes if it is
> > possible for a persons thoughts, or dreams, to become part of a mesh
> > of energy that remains in tack for years only to be received by
> > someone later on, in thought or dream form. Like radio or other type
> > of wave that travels throughout our galaxy.
>
> > Therefore when interpreting a dream it must be taken into account that
> > it may in fact not even be a dream but a connection to another
> > reality, or subconscious. A dream may have absolutely nothing to do
> > with the dreamer. Example is a dream I had years ago about jumping
> > into a taxi late afternoon, I don't know that it is really me because
> > I can't see myself in the mirror and there are no other details to
> > identify with, suddenly it starts to get dark and the taxi is driving
> > in the wrong direction and suddenly pulls over in a ghetto
> > neighborhood. Hoodlums with knives and guns approach the car and
> > drag (me) out trying to take my wallet and roughing with me. My heart
> > is pounding I start to run, I hear gun shots and wake up, my heart is
> > pounding and I'm gasping for breath.
>
> > Was it me in the dream, was it someone else in the dream, was it
> > something that was happening that moment or something that happened
> > in the past, or was it someone's dream that I intercepted?
> > It is possible that an actual person took a cab and was driven by the
> > driver to a place where he could be robbed and the driver and the
> > hoodlums were part of a group of thieves? The intensity of the
> > persons fear sent massive amounts of energy into the cosmos for me to
> > pick up while I was sleeping. However, the first interpretation might
> > be that the incident represented my own fears about something and the
> > taxi represents the etc...............you see where I'm going with
> > this.
>
> > The dreams and quantum travel thread opens up new avenues to explore
> > concerning dreams, avenues beyond that of traditional dream theorists
> > who connected the subconscious with reality, the spiritual dream state
> > with our conscious world. Quantum physics and the expansion of cosmic
> > understanding lend new meaning to dreams. There are many more
> > questions I ask myself about the dreams I awaken from.
>
> > Naturally in the 9/11 dream it was obvious that it was me because I
> > could identify with me talking to my sister in law, so that is not the
> > type of dream I'm talking about here. That seemed, in retrospect, to
> > be a premonitory dream, one that I should have paid more attention
> > to.
>
> > If you care to, try this one.
> > Recurring Dream:
>
> > I used to have this recurring dream where I swam across a river, the
> > water was green but clear, a snake would swim under me and away. Upon
> > reaching the other side I would walk to the right down a dirt path to
> > a towering cliff. The path starts to go up the cliff but it gets
> > smaller and smaller without much room for footing, I'm high up near
> > the clouds.
> > I see an opening with a warm golden glowing light close by
> > but traversing this section is treacherous, and so I'm
> > clinging for dear life at this point. I finally make it and look
> > inside the hole which is an opening to someones home. The interior is
> > warm and very cozy. No one is there, I climb in but then I wake
> > up.
>
> > The next time I have the same exact dream in the same exact place with
> > the same exact appearance except when I'm swimming across the river
> > I'm aware that I have been there before, I'm actually looking for the
> > snake. The snake appears and the dream continues and I'm remembering
> > being there before anticipating looking through the opening. I get
> > there and look in but no one is ever there.
>
> > After the third and last time I could remember having the dream I had
> > to seriously spend some time thinking about the dream and rehashing
> > it's events as to try to put something together. But I never could
> > and it remains one of those mysterious dreams.
>
> > On Feb 2, 9:32 pm, manfraco FranktheElder <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Hi Slip
> > > So, it seems to me that you have come to the same conclusion about
> > > your ex as I have, since you believe that your subconscious cut her
> > > off from your dream that you had.
> > > I am not going to say much more about this dream, accept that I have
> > > come to the interpretation of the dream just through observations of
> > > my own dreams, I don’t know much about Jung’s, Nietzsche or other
> > > psychiatrists, but I have heard of them and read some of their
> > > writings but not in dept.
> > > I wish you good health and all the best, as we all need that at the
> > > later stage of our life.
>
> > > Regards
> > > Manfraco
>
> > > On Feb 2, 6:30 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Thanks for the parallel manfraco. I can say that I have never really
> > > > thought bad of her and I do speak with her on rare occasion, in fact
> > > > recently. I do remember that dream very vividly. I have to add that
> > > > I remember posting that she and my ex both worked in the wall street
> > > > section of Manhattan. Often I would drive into the city to pick them
> > > > both up. Why they both were not in the dream may have to do with
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
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