We often lack the connections on our own.
On 3 Feb, 22:17, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
> Oh, the logic is always there Neil. The question often is are we able
> to empathise enough to find it. Of course, the more the quantity of
> differing experiences and thinking we have had helps too.
>
> On Feb 3, 2:00 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Why thank you Orn. One does have to put up something of a front when
> > one wants to do very little harm. I like to think I would have done
> > something more productive for Dorothy than leave her in the hands of
> > the drug barons of the Studios though. Lions used to lose fights with
> > bears, so one can understand some of the quivering in the original
> > film. The Tin Man went on to become Data. I was once the Horse in
> > Don Quixote and I find being the only one knowing what is going on
> > somewhat debilitating.
>
> > I'm not sure logic is dropped in dreams, but perhaps I'm skewed
> > because I find so little of it in the waking states of others! I
> > could get quite seriously actor-network theory here - we seldom
> > determine what would be the observations that could settle the
> > dialogue beyond debate we catch the odd glimpse of in here. I saw a
> > spaceship in my nap. It was composed of my prose and being driven to
> > oblivion by Craig (no - not really the last part mate - I'm sure it
> > was really Slip)!
>
> > On 3 Feb, 17:46, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Those are all wonderful questions, and the answers really require us
> > > to define "I am". I know from experience, that in my sleep, I enter
> > > states beyond the physical senses, beyond language, beyond any concept
> > > of I am. If we are living all lives that have ever been lived or ever
> > > will be lived simultaneously, there is no other. This, for me, is a
> > > sleep state, but I am also able to access it while awake. All about
> > > viewpoint.
>
> > > On Feb 3, 11:39 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > I understand Fran and your post indicates your inclination.
> > > > Freud correlated personality and pathology, related conscious activity
> > > > to unconscious motivation. Freud believed that as a condition of
> > > > societal assimilation we repress certain desires and urges which
> > > > manifested within the dream state, a realm that used symbolism as a
> > > > means of expression. For Freud dreams were simply a threshold between
> > > > the Id and Superego. Jung in contrast disagreed with the repression of
> > > > specific aspects of the consciousness and viewed the unconscious as a
> > > > spiritual realm with dreams being a portal to the unconscious and
> > > > served as solution source for our conscious problems. I can see how he
> > > > developed his concept shadow by viewing reality and the subconscious
> > > > as sort of mirror images. Still neither Freud or Jung addressed my
> > > > concept of dream travel in which dreams reflect a third, fourth and
> > > > maybe fifth dimension of subconsciousness. Alfred Adler and Frederick
> > > > Perls (Gestalt Therapy) had similar parallels but also had not
> > > > explored other theories but also remained in the traditional or
> > > > conventional interpretative circle.
>
> > > > Again, aside from the conventional wisdom, I offer new dimensions to
> > > > dreaming such as:
> > > > Was it "really" me in the dream?
> > > > Was it the subconscious of someone else in "my" dream?
> > > > Was it something that was happening at that moment in my dream or
> > > > something that happened in the past or going to happen in the future?
> > > > Was it simply someone's dream that I intercepted?
>
> > > > On Feb 3, 6:21 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Slip. I incline to a more traditional, conventional explanatation for
> > > > > dreams. I see them primarily as a sorting and organising process for
> > > > > our consciousness.A lot of what has happened between two periods of
> > > > > sleep has been (temporarily) stored by our brains, not just
> > > > > experiences, but feelings, thoughts, memories and memories of
> > > > > experiences and memories. Temporary connections have been forged. Our
> > > > > consciousness, however, will not retain all of this.
>
> > > > > REM-Sleep and dreams are part of the process where consciousness
> > > > > structures this and dumps much which will not be retained. Dreams are
> > > > > the (more or, more often, less) conscious experiencing of this sorting
> > > > > out process.
>
> > > > > This is not to deny their importance. Vividly remembered dreams are
> > > > > signals about things which are really concerning or preoccupying us,
> > > > > in positive as well as negative ways. They can often guide us to
> > > > > issues, ideas and feelings which concern us, which are not always
> > > > > available or clear to our waking consciousness. But we should be
> > > > > careful, in my view, towards ascribing too much meaning to specific
> > > > > images or incidents in dreams; they are, by their very nature, a
> > > > > higgeldy-piggeldy mixture of all sorts, with many co-incidental
> > > > > connections, very like what would happen if I simply dumped out some
> > > > > of the drawers I have in my desk, or kitchen, where everything under
> > > > > the "to be sorted later" label lands, on the floor. There is then, no
> > > > > significance about the fact that a rubber band has wound itself around
> > > > > a battery which is lying on a postcard from an old acquaintance, which
> > > > > I still hadn't decided to throw away.
>
> > > > > Daniel C. Dennett, with his model of multi-draft consciousness, has
> > > > > some interesting explanations in his writings on the subject.
>
> > > > > On 3 Feb., 10:51, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Good to see you back Frank. Thanks again for the interpretation. Try
> > > > > > the one about the river, the snake, the mountain, the room. Molly
> > > > > > seemed to have some insight on it. (see below)
>
> > > > > > There are strange occurrences in dreams that leave us in a state of
> > > > > > awe at times delving deep for interpretation. What usually strikes
> > > > > > me
> > > > > > most in my dreams are situations that are really bazaar and
> > > > > > unaccounted for in consciousness, the people I've never met and the
> > > > > > places I've never been. Regardless of the lucidity of dreams, some
> > > > > > are obviously very symbolic with unimaginable situations and
> > > > > > objects,
> > > > > > like flying, clowns and the transformation of inanimate objects to
> > > > > > real life beings. I haven't paid much attention to dreams as of
> > > > > > late
> > > > > > due to a Sciatica attack that has had me on heavy medication for the
> > > > > > past two weeks, I feel like I'm in a daze and can't really function
> > > > > > well, my equilibrium is imbalanced, my thoughts are fragmented and
> > > > > > I've lost continuity of focus.
>
> > > > > > Still I value my dreams and try to piece them together. Dreams are
> > > > > > not part of the real world but a realm all unto it's own. That is
> > > > > > why
> > > > > > I hypothesized on quantum dream travel, if it is not happening in my
> > > > > > conscious world then it is happening somewhere else. People tend to
> > > > > > think of dreams as being weird or strange without the slightest
> > > > > > consideration of how strange the world we live in is. I look around
> > > > > > and see a world that if represented in someone's dream a thousand
> > > > > > years ago, would be considered a very powerful dream, weird and
> > > > > > strange. We take for granted the strange world in which we live.
> > > > > > Therefore, I must accept the possibility that we are traveling in
> > > > > > our
> > > > > > dreams to a parallel universe or somewhere here within our own world
> > > > > > via the quantum travel theory. How else could I dream of being
> > > > > > amongst orientals on a beach with ancient architecture around me,
> > > > > > another place in another time?
>
> > > > > > I don't know that it would be possible to conduct experiments to
> > > > > > establish the viability of such a theory as dreams are still not
> > > > > > available to anyone but the dreamer and totally unique to the
> > > > > > dreamer's subconscious and unconscious world. I wouldn't say that
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > dreams are connected to the dreamers reality due to the dreams that
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > have had where no physical body was present but just a
> > > > > > consciousness.
> > > > > > In this type of dream I may be connecting to another persons
> > > > > > consciousness in their reality, or actually connecting to that
> > > > > > persons
> > > > > > subconscious dream state and witnessing that persons dream, again
> > > > > > regardless of the lucidity of the dream. Remember if you have no
> > > > > > way
> > > > > > of identifying yourself in your dream then you really don't know for
> > > > > > sure that it is your dream. Perhaps I, personally, was not on a
> > > > > > beach with orientals but in my dream state I connected with someone
> > > > > > who was on the beach with orientals. I wonder sometimes if it is
> > > > > > possible for a persons thoughts, or dreams, to become part of a mesh
> > > > > > of energy that remains in tack for years only to be received by
> > > > > > someone later on, in thought or dream form. Like radio or other
> > > > > > type
> > > > > > of wave that travels throughout our galaxy.
>
> > > > > > Therefore when interpreting a dream it must be taken into account
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > it may in fact not even be a dream but a connection to another
> > > > > > reality, or subconscious. A dream may have absolutely nothing to do
> > > > > > with the dreamer. Example is a dream I had years ago about jumping
> > > > > > into a taxi late afternoon, I don't know that it is really me
> > > > > > because
> > > > > > I can't see myself in the mirror and there are no other details to
> > > > > > identify with, suddenly it starts to get dark and the taxi is
> > > > > > driving
> > > > > > in the wrong direction and suddenly pulls over in a ghetto
> > > > > > neighborhood. Hoodlums with knives and guns approach the car and
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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