Why thank you Orn. One does have to put up something of a front when one wants to do very little harm. I like to think I would have done something more productive for Dorothy than leave her in the hands of the drug barons of the Studios though. Lions used to lose fights with bears, so one can understand some of the quivering in the original film. The Tin Man went on to become Data. I was once the Horse in Don Quixote and I find being the only one knowing what is going on somewhat debilitating.
I'm not sure logic is dropped in dreams, but perhaps I'm skewed because I find so little of it in the waking states of others! I could get quite seriously actor-network theory here - we seldom determine what would be the observations that could settle the dialogue beyond debate we catch the odd glimpse of in here. I saw a spaceship in my nap. It was composed of my prose and being driven to oblivion by Craig (no - not really the last part mate - I'm sure it was really Slip)! On 3 Feb, 17:46, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > Those are all wonderful questions, and the answers really require us > to define "I am". I know from experience, that in my sleep, I enter > states beyond the physical senses, beyond language, beyond any concept > of I am. If we are living all lives that have ever been lived or ever > will be lived simultaneously, there is no other. This, for me, is a > sleep state, but I am also able to access it while awake. All about > viewpoint. > > On Feb 3, 11:39 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I understand Fran and your post indicates your inclination. > > Freud correlated personality and pathology, related conscious activity > > to unconscious motivation. Freud believed that as a condition of > > societal assimilation we repress certain desires and urges which > > manifested within the dream state, a realm that used symbolism as a > > means of expression. For Freud dreams were simply a threshold between > > the Id and Superego. Jung in contrast disagreed with the repression of > > specific aspects of the consciousness and viewed the unconscious as a > > spiritual realm with dreams being a portal to the unconscious and > > served as solution source for our conscious problems. I can see how he > > developed his concept shadow by viewing reality and the subconscious > > as sort of mirror images. Still neither Freud or Jung addressed my > > concept of dream travel in which dreams reflect a third, fourth and > > maybe fifth dimension of subconsciousness. Alfred Adler and Frederick > > Perls (Gestalt Therapy) had similar parallels but also had not > > explored other theories but also remained in the traditional or > > conventional interpretative circle. > > > Again, aside from the conventional wisdom, I offer new dimensions to > > dreaming such as: > > Was it "really" me in the dream? > > Was it the subconscious of someone else in "my" dream? > > Was it something that was happening at that moment in my dream or > > something that happened in the past or going to happen in the future? > > Was it simply someone's dream that I intercepted? > > > On Feb 3, 6:21 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Slip. I incline to a more traditional, conventional explanatation for > > > dreams. I see them primarily as a sorting and organising process for > > > our consciousness.A lot of what has happened between two periods of > > > sleep has been (temporarily) stored by our brains, not just > > > experiences, but feelings, thoughts, memories and memories of > > > experiences and memories. Temporary connections have been forged. Our > > > consciousness, however, will not retain all of this. > > > > REM-Sleep and dreams are part of the process where consciousness > > > structures this and dumps much which will not be retained. Dreams are > > > the (more or, more often, less) conscious experiencing of this sorting > > > out process. > > > > This is not to deny their importance. Vividly remembered dreams are > > > signals about things which are really concerning or preoccupying us, > > > in positive as well as negative ways. They can often guide us to > > > issues, ideas and feelings which concern us, which are not always > > > available or clear to our waking consciousness. But we should be > > > careful, in my view, towards ascribing too much meaning to specific > > > images or incidents in dreams; they are, by their very nature, a > > > higgeldy-piggeldy mixture of all sorts, with many co-incidental > > > connections, very like what would happen if I simply dumped out some > > > of the drawers I have in my desk, or kitchen, where everything under > > > the "to be sorted later" label lands, on the floor. There is then, no > > > significance about the fact that a rubber band has wound itself around > > > a battery which is lying on a postcard from an old acquaintance, which > > > I still hadn't decided to throw away. > > > > Daniel C. Dennett, with his model of multi-draft consciousness, has > > > some interesting explanations in his writings on the subject. > > > > On 3 Feb., 10:51, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Good to see you back Frank. Thanks again for the interpretation. Try > > > > the one about the river, the snake, the mountain, the room. Molly > > > > seemed to have some insight on it. (see below) > > > > > There are strange occurrences in dreams that leave us in a state of > > > > awe at times delving deep for interpretation. What usually strikes me > > > > most in my dreams are situations that are really bazaar and > > > > unaccounted for in consciousness, the people I've never met and the > > > > places I've never been. Regardless of the lucidity of dreams, some > > > > are obviously very symbolic with unimaginable situations and objects, > > > > like flying, clowns and the transformation of inanimate objects to > > > > real life beings. I haven't paid much attention to dreams as of late > > > > due to a Sciatica attack that has had me on heavy medication for the > > > > past two weeks, I feel like I'm in a daze and can't really function > > > > well, my equilibrium is imbalanced, my thoughts are fragmented and > > > > I've lost continuity of focus. > > > > > Still I value my dreams and try to piece them together. Dreams are > > > > not part of the real world but a realm all unto it's own. That is why > > > > I hypothesized on quantum dream travel, if it is not happening in my > > > > conscious world then it is happening somewhere else. People tend to > > > > think of dreams as being weird or strange without the slightest > > > > consideration of how strange the world we live in is. I look around > > > > and see a world that if represented in someone's dream a thousand > > > > years ago, would be considered a very powerful dream, weird and > > > > strange. We take for granted the strange world in which we live. > > > > Therefore, I must accept the possibility that we are traveling in our > > > > dreams to a parallel universe or somewhere here within our own world > > > > via the quantum travel theory. How else could I dream of being > > > > amongst orientals on a beach with ancient architecture around me, > > > > another place in another time? > > > > > I don't know that it would be possible to conduct experiments to > > > > establish the viability of such a theory as dreams are still not > > > > available to anyone but the dreamer and totally unique to the > > > > dreamer's subconscious and unconscious world. I wouldn't say that all > > > > dreams are connected to the dreamers reality due to the dreams that I > > > > have had where no physical body was present but just a consciousness. > > > > In this type of dream I may be connecting to another persons > > > > consciousness in their reality, or actually connecting to that persons > > > > subconscious dream state and witnessing that persons dream, again > > > > regardless of the lucidity of the dream. Remember if you have no way > > > > of identifying yourself in your dream then you really don't know for > > > > sure that it is your dream. Perhaps I, personally, was not on a > > > > beach with orientals but in my dream state I connected with someone > > > > who was on the beach with orientals. I wonder sometimes if it is > > > > possible for a persons thoughts, or dreams, to become part of a mesh > > > > of energy that remains in tack for years only to be received by > > > > someone later on, in thought or dream form. Like radio or other type > > > > of wave that travels throughout our galaxy. > > > > > Therefore when interpreting a dream it must be taken into account that > > > > it may in fact not even be a dream but a connection to another > > > > reality, or subconscious. A dream may have absolutely nothing to do > > > > with the dreamer. Example is a dream I had years ago about jumping > > > > into a taxi late afternoon, I don't know that it is really me because > > > > I can't see myself in the mirror and there are no other details to > > > > identify with, suddenly it starts to get dark and the taxi is driving > > > > in the wrong direction and suddenly pulls over in a ghetto > > > > neighborhood. Hoodlums with knives and guns approach the car and > > > > drag (me) out trying to take my wallet and roughing with me. My heart > > > > is pounding I start to run, I hear gun shots and wake up, my heart is > > > > pounding and I'm gasping for breath. > > > > > Was it me in the dream, was it someone else in the dream, was it > > > > something that was happening that moment or something that happened > > > > in the past, or was it someone's dream that I intercepted? > > > > It is possible that an actual person took a cab and was driven by the > > > > driver to a place where he could be robbed and the driver and the > > > > hoodlums were part of a group of thieves? The intensity of the > > > > persons fear sent massive amounts of energy into the cosmos for me to > > > > pick up while I was sleeping. However, the first interpretation might > > > > be that the incident represented my own fears about something and the > > > > taxi represents the etc...............you see where I'm going with > > > > this. > > > > > The dreams and quantum travel thread opens up new avenues to explore > > > > concerning dreams, avenues beyond that of traditional dream theorists > > > > who connected the subconscious with reality, the spiritual dream state > > > > with our conscious world. Quantum physics and the expansion of cosmic > > > > understanding lend new meaning to dreams. There are many more > > > > questions I ask myself about the dreams I awaken from. > > > > > Naturally in the 9/11 dream it was obvious that it was me because I > > > > could identify with me talking to my sister in law, so that is not the > > > > type of dream I'm talking about here. That seemed, in retrospect, to > > > > be a premonitory dream, one that I should have paid more attention > > > > to. > > > > > If you care to, try this one. > > > > Recurring Dream: > > > > > I used to have this recurring dream where I swam across a river, > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
