Those are all wonderful questions, and the answers really require us to define "I am". I know from experience, that in my sleep, I enter states beyond the physical senses, beyond language, beyond any concept of I am. If we are living all lives that have ever been lived or ever will be lived simultaneously, there is no other. This, for me, is a sleep state, but I am also able to access it while awake. All about viewpoint.
On Feb 3, 11:39 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > I understand Fran and your post indicates your inclination. > Freud correlated personality and pathology, related conscious activity > to unconscious motivation. Freud believed that as a condition of > societal assimilation we repress certain desires and urges which > manifested within the dream state, a realm that used symbolism as a > means of expression. For Freud dreams were simply a threshold between > the Id and Superego. Jung in contrast disagreed with the repression of > specific aspects of the consciousness and viewed the unconscious as a > spiritual realm with dreams being a portal to the unconscious and > served as solution source for our conscious problems. I can see how he > developed his concept shadow by viewing reality and the subconscious > as sort of mirror images. Still neither Freud or Jung addressed my > concept of dream travel in which dreams reflect a third, fourth and > maybe fifth dimension of subconsciousness. Alfred Adler and Frederick > Perls (Gestalt Therapy) had similar parallels but also had not > explored other theories but also remained in the traditional or > conventional interpretative circle. > > Again, aside from the conventional wisdom, I offer new dimensions to > dreaming such as: > Was it "really" me in the dream? > Was it the subconscious of someone else in "my" dream? > Was it something that was happening at that moment in my dream or > something that happened in the past or going to happen in the future? > Was it simply someone's dream that I intercepted? > > On Feb 3, 6:21 am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Slip. I incline to a more traditional, conventional explanatation for > > dreams. I see them primarily as a sorting and organising process for > > our consciousness.A lot of what has happened between two periods of > > sleep has been (temporarily) stored by our brains, not just > > experiences, but feelings, thoughts, memories and memories of > > experiences and memories. Temporary connections have been forged. Our > > consciousness, however, will not retain all of this. > > > REM-Sleep and dreams are part of the process where consciousness > > structures this and dumps much which will not be retained. Dreams are > > the (more or, more often, less) conscious experiencing of this sorting > > out process. > > > This is not to deny their importance. Vividly remembered dreams are > > signals about things which are really concerning or preoccupying us, > > in positive as well as negative ways. They can often guide us to > > issues, ideas and feelings which concern us, which are not always > > available or clear to our waking consciousness. But we should be > > careful, in my view, towards ascribing too much meaning to specific > > images or incidents in dreams; they are, by their very nature, a > > higgeldy-piggeldy mixture of all sorts, with many co-incidental > > connections, very like what would happen if I simply dumped out some > > of the drawers I have in my desk, or kitchen, where everything under > > the "to be sorted later" label lands, on the floor. There is then, no > > significance about the fact that a rubber band has wound itself around > > a battery which is lying on a postcard from an old acquaintance, which > > I still hadn't decided to throw away. > > > Daniel C. Dennett, with his model of multi-draft consciousness, has > > some interesting explanations in his writings on the subject. > > > On 3 Feb., 10:51, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Good to see you back Frank. Thanks again for the interpretation. Try > > > the one about the river, the snake, the mountain, the room. Molly > > > seemed to have some insight on it. (see below) > > > > There are strange occurrences in dreams that leave us in a state of > > > awe at times delving deep for interpretation. What usually strikes me > > > most in my dreams are situations that are really bazaar and > > > unaccounted for in consciousness, the people I've never met and the > > > places I've never been. Regardless of the lucidity of dreams, some > > > are obviously very symbolic with unimaginable situations and objects, > > > like flying, clowns and the transformation of inanimate objects to > > > real life beings. I haven't paid much attention to dreams as of late > > > due to a Sciatica attack that has had me on heavy medication for the > > > past two weeks, I feel like I'm in a daze and can't really function > > > well, my equilibrium is imbalanced, my thoughts are fragmented and > > > I've lost continuity of focus. > > > > Still I value my dreams and try to piece them together. Dreams are > > > not part of the real world but a realm all unto it's own. That is why > > > I hypothesized on quantum dream travel, if it is not happening in my > > > conscious world then it is happening somewhere else. People tend to > > > think of dreams as being weird or strange without the slightest > > > consideration of how strange the world we live in is. I look around > > > and see a world that if represented in someone's dream a thousand > > > years ago, would be considered a very powerful dream, weird and > > > strange. We take for granted the strange world in which we live. > > > Therefore, I must accept the possibility that we are traveling in our > > > dreams to a parallel universe or somewhere here within our own world > > > via the quantum travel theory. How else could I dream of being > > > amongst orientals on a beach with ancient architecture around me, > > > another place in another time? > > > > I don't know that it would be possible to conduct experiments to > > > establish the viability of such a theory as dreams are still not > > > available to anyone but the dreamer and totally unique to the > > > dreamer's subconscious and unconscious world. I wouldn't say that all > > > dreams are connected to the dreamers reality due to the dreams that I > > > have had where no physical body was present but just a consciousness. > > > In this type of dream I may be connecting to another persons > > > consciousness in their reality, or actually connecting to that persons > > > subconscious dream state and witnessing that persons dream, again > > > regardless of the lucidity of the dream. Remember if you have no way > > > of identifying yourself in your dream then you really don't know for > > > sure that it is your dream. Perhaps I, personally, was not on a > > > beach with orientals but in my dream state I connected with someone > > > who was on the beach with orientals. I wonder sometimes if it is > > > possible for a persons thoughts, or dreams, to become part of a mesh > > > of energy that remains in tack for years only to be received by > > > someone later on, in thought or dream form. Like radio or other type > > > of wave that travels throughout our galaxy. > > > > Therefore when interpreting a dream it must be taken into account that > > > it may in fact not even be a dream but a connection to another > > > reality, or subconscious. A dream may have absolutely nothing to do > > > with the dreamer. Example is a dream I had years ago about jumping > > > into a taxi late afternoon, I don't know that it is really me because > > > I can't see myself in the mirror and there are no other details to > > > identify with, suddenly it starts to get dark and the taxi is driving > > > in the wrong direction and suddenly pulls over in a ghetto > > > neighborhood. Hoodlums with knives and guns approach the car and > > > drag (me) out trying to take my wallet and roughing with me. My heart > > > is pounding I start to run, I hear gun shots and wake up, my heart is > > > pounding and I'm gasping for breath. > > > > Was it me in the dream, was it someone else in the dream, was it > > > something that was happening that moment or something that happened > > > in the past, or was it someone's dream that I intercepted? > > > It is possible that an actual person took a cab and was driven by the > > > driver to a place where he could be robbed and the driver and the > > > hoodlums were part of a group of thieves? The intensity of the > > > persons fear sent massive amounts of energy into the cosmos for me to > > > pick up while I was sleeping. However, the first interpretation might > > > be that the incident represented my own fears about something and the > > > taxi represents the etc...............you see where I'm going with > > > this. > > > > The dreams and quantum travel thread opens up new avenues to explore > > > concerning dreams, avenues beyond that of traditional dream theorists > > > who connected the subconscious with reality, the spiritual dream state > > > with our conscious world. Quantum physics and the expansion of cosmic > > > understanding lend new meaning to dreams. There are many more > > > questions I ask myself about the dreams I awaken from. > > > > Naturally in the 9/11 dream it was obvious that it was me because I > > > could identify with me talking to my sister in law, so that is not the > > > type of dream I'm talking about here. That seemed, in retrospect, to > > > be a premonitory dream, one that I should have paid more attention > > > to. > > > > If you care to, try this one. > > > Recurring Dream: > > > > I used to have this recurring dream where I swam across a river, the > > > water was green but clear, a snake would swim under me and away. Upon > > > reaching the other side I would walk to the right down a dirt path to > > > a towering cliff. The path starts to go up the cliff but it gets > > > smaller and smaller without much room for footing, I'm high up near > > > the clouds. > > > I see an opening with a warm golden glowing light close by > > > but traversing this section is treacherous, and so I'm > > > clinging for dear life at this point. I finally make it and look > > > inside the hole which is an opening to someones home. The interior is > > > warm and very cozy. No one is there, I climb in but then I wake > > > up. > > > > The next time I have the same exact dream in the same exact place with > > > the same exact appearance > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
