invado pacis quod subsisto puteus!
On Feb 6, 8:26 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Are you are using the I AM reference as that of the Hebrew Yahweh
> > translation?
>
> Well, I can't say that I am well versed enough in Hebrew studies to be
> making an adequate reference to this. I do think that knowing "I am"
> is a much different state of consciousness than the object related "I
> am that"
>
> > Is your capitalized "THAT" the Hebrew word asher? As in I am That I
> > am? Or do you relate with Vam's latin sum mum bono?
>
> I think that even these references mean different things to different
> people who have studied these concepts.
>
> > You also reference the "Alpha and Omega" which I know is a Revelation
> > verse referring to the Christ and correlated to the Isaiah verse
> > reference First and Last.
>
> Yes, and also greek alphabet letters. I don't pretend to be a bible
> scholar, although I am fascinated with the passages as I see them as
> diagrams for consciousness raising. I am not familiar with the
> passage you site so I looked it up and here is the King James version
> of Revelation 1:8: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the
> ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come,
> the Almighty.
>
> This is a good example of my meaning. Because the beginning and the
> end are just markers, we are more - what is, what was and what will be
> - all time
>
> > I ask this as a means of evaluating your objectivity or more or less
> > getting a better idea of the nature of your objectivity.
>
> I will try to do a better job in exploring what I mean by object. Any
> time we see something apart from ourselves, we objectify it. Whether
> a keyboard, person, painting, car, store - any thing. At the level of
> the many they are separate. This is nothing new and has references as
> old as written language, Descartes writing probably the foremost in
> our minds. And yet, these objects are also extensions of ourselves
> and expressions of who we are in the moment and the possibility of our
> becoming. I believe that our relationship to these "things" and our
> responses in thoughts and feeling determine the nature of our
> experience, in dream and waking life. The difference is that in
> dream, the logic of our thoughts is less constrained by societal
> models. We all tend to think in terms that allow us to relate to our
> larger society. And this is good. It allows us to fully explore the
> experience of one and many. If we can hold ourselves in a place of
> love, feeling compassion for "other" is not limited to a respect for
> the other, but becomes an expression of love that creates and
> continues a loving experience. Not easy to do under difficult
> circumstances - and it is these times that drive can drive us
> internally to the core of our being to find the essential possibility
> of love. To reach that ultimate state of creation "the
> Almighty" (referenced above)sometimes takes adversity, but once the
> pathway has been forged, we can return and set up camp, if we desire
> to do so. If not, we have the opportunity to witness our resistance
> to do so, giving us insight into our internal natures where we can
> choose (or not) the thoughts, feelings and states that create or
> experience anew.
>
> > Basically, are you attaching biblical reference to your dreamscape?
>
> I try not to do this because it puts people off. But as I believe my
> dreamscape to be a reflection of my consciousness, and the bible a
> collection of diagrams for consciousness raising, they might apply. I
> don't consciously relate the two and avoid doing so in my writing,
> though enjoy swimming with a buddy in these waters if I find someone
> who is simpatico.
>
> > I'm not discounting it but simply want to get a clearer view of what
> > direction we are going. As you say "even the beginning is a rambling
> > road", this is why I'm trying to sort it out.
>
> Thanks for the wonderful chat, Slip. I can see the campfire and that
> bottle of wine right now.
>
> > Statements such as "............I create, according to a simple design
> > that
> > includes knowing that I AM the creator and the creation.", seem to me
> > in need of more clarity, especially that you are talking about your
> > dreaming.
>
> Don't let me off the hook for responding to this, Slip. Right now, as
> my mother in law passed away yesterday (peacefully in her sleep,) I
> must run off for attention to family. There are many emotions and
> transitions here, much alpha and omega. Back in the next quiet
> moment, my friend.
>
> Molly
>
> > On Feb 5, 8:26 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > The "I Am" issue definitely requires some examination and a
> > > descriptive
> > > quality. Where would you, Molly, begin to define "I Am"?
>
> > > As Vam implies, for me, the "I am" is all encompassing. It includes
> > > the seer and the seen and the seeing. For me, it also includes the
> > > alpha and omega, the beginning and end - that point of creation where
> > > Logos is breathed into form. At that point, there is no object or
> > > THAT, just me, and all that I am. I am also all that is, subjective
> > > and objective.
>
> > > I know that this viewpoint is not shared by all. But I do think it is
> > > innate in all. From discussions about Heidegger and Husserl, object
> > > and subject, I can see that there are folks that cannot get past the
> > > idea that each of us is separate from the other, and it is true, we
> > > are. But we are also more. There is more to knowing we are one than
> > > just knowing there is something we have in common that we all share.
> > > This is a leap that is difficult to discuss without having experienced
> > > it. Discussions of the non dual are the closest I've seen.
>
> > > My sleep experience changed once I let go of the notion of self and
> > > other, and was able to rest in the knowing that everything that passes
> > > through my consciousness, I create, according to a simple design that
> > > includes knowing that I AM the creator and the creation. Now, I think
> > > that most of my sleep time is spent in those parts of me that I can
> > > only describe as pure love. The longer I can stay there, the more the
> > > rest of all that I am falls in line with that loving experience. I
> > > like to sleep 10 hrs. a night. I hold that space for everyone and all
> > > that is I am. Of course, I also have dreams that allow me to problem
> > > solve and create, dreams that remind me of the archetypes that hold me
> > > near to the many, dreams that reflect my own resistance. I try to pay
> > > attention to them all, and recognize the importance in all that they
> > > are - and then let them go. Because I am in motion, and more is
> > > coming into my experience that reflects all that I am and the
> > > possibility of more.
>
> > > I don't want to give anyone the impression that my life is
> > > uncomplicated or without difficulty. I think that this is a
> > > reflection of my resistance. I feel anger and sadness and joy and
> > > love - but don't fall as much into the patterned emotion based on past
> > > experience of these feeling as I once did. I hope I will continue to
> > > find a more pure feeling for life as time goes on. I find that it is
> > > easier if I focus more on the good and less on the "not me" or "what I
> > > don't like", although those parts of me are visited too as they
> > > reflect my own resistance to me. I have found that if I dwell there
> > > and don't let go, I just get more of the same, along with an emotional
> > > rush that creates a drive for more - very addicting. In other words,
> > > focusing on I am allows me more of that experience of pure feeling.
> > > Focusing on I am not, creates the object - I am not that - and limits
> > > experience to the states that require an object. I am so much more
> > > than that.
>
> > > Thanks for stating your question, Slip, as "where would you begin to
> > > define." As you can see, even the beginning is a rambling road.
>
> > > On Feb 4, 8:39 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > States beyond the physical senses in dreams are what I base my concept
> > > > on. When there is no indication of physical representation (of the
> > > > dreamer) within the dream, there is the possibility that the
> > > > subconscious has entered the cosmic realm, even if only as a voyeur to
> > > > witness an occurrence elsewhere. In this state one can transverse
> > > > time and space. I have many dreams in which I only have visual
> > > > presence without active physical participation, like I'm just there to
> > > > see what is taking place. Aside from other types of dreams, these
> > > > visual only dreams are the ones that bring about the questions. The
> > > > "I Am" issue definitely requires some examination and a descriptive
> > > > quality. Where would you, Molly, begin to define "I Am"?
>
> > > > On Feb 3, 11:46 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Those are all wonderful questions, and the answers really require us
> > > > > to define "I am". I know from experience, that in my sleep, I enter
> > > > > states beyond the physical senses, beyond language, beyond any concept
> > > > > of I am. If we are living all lives that have ever been lived or ever
> > > > > will be lived simultaneously, there is no other. This, for me, is a
> > > > > sleep state, but I am also able to access it while awake. All about
> > > > > viewpoint.
>
> > > > > On Feb 3, 11:39 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > I understand Fran and your post indicates your inclination.
> > > > > > Freud correlated personality and pathology, related conscious
> > > > > > activity
> > > > > > to unconscious motivation. Freud believed that as a condition of
> > > > > > societal assimilation we repress certain desires and urges which
> > > > > > manifested within the dream state, a realm that used symbolism as a
> > > > > > means of expression. For Freud dreams were simply a threshold
> > > > > > between
> > > > > > the Id and Superego. Jung in contrast disagreed with
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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